- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Dec 18
2. Majority of Christians? You make it sound as though there are classes of Christians.
Only in the sense that some of us need to be imitators of those who are inheriting the promises. That is that ALL of us may be inheriting the promises.
"That you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and longsuffering are inheriting the promises." (Hebrews 6:12)
I do not want to be sluggish. If I notice brothers and sisters who are coming into the inheritance of the promises, I want to use them as an example of encouragement. These I can learn from as they do from one another.
Is that two classes of saved Christians? Well, NO and Maybe. Those who are inheriting the promises are overcoming in the New Testament promises. Those who lag behind may be sluggish. There is hope for all. But we wish to be one with those who are inheriting the promises while we love all the saints.
So for some to be raptured early only reveals that they were watching and ready. And for some to be raptured latter in a remedial way of having to come latter, shows that Christ was serious about warning us all that we needed to WATCH and be READY for His secret sudden coming.
Tell me that this doesn't make perfect logical sense. I think it does. And I am happy the Holy Spirit is shedding this light for the church universal during these end times.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Dec 18
1 edit
John 3:13 makes clear Enoch wasn't raptured to heaven.
I might agree that WHERE Enoch was taken by God is not explicitly stated. I think God has more places then we know about.
Notice that this is really a "surface of the skin" kind of issue. "Where did Enoch go?"
Can we be preoccupied with "where did Enoch go?" and miss the more pertinent matter - he walked with God.
I am putting a bit more emphasis on Enoch walked with God. That means he lived with God. He lived unto God. He approved of having God all involved with his daily living. This step he sought to be one with God. That step he sought to be one with God. Each step he was careful about what God wanted.
Step by step Enoch learned to walk with God. He walked with God because he knew what was coming on the world - the judgment of God. He wanted to please God. And I think he legitimately didn't want to have anything to do with the judgment of God which was about to come in the flood.
He walked with God because of his children. For their sake also he thought he should walk with God.
I surmise this because he called his son's name "Methuselah". And that name in the Hebrew means something life "when he dies it will come". The IT there was most likely the flood of Noah as God's judging the world.
"When my son Methuselah dies, the judgment of God will come upon this earth." When he dies it will come. And it did.
Enoch knew what was coming and prepared by WALKING WITH GOD. And as a reward not only did he postpone the judgment until his son died but he took Enoch off of the earth somewhere. And suddenly he could not be found.
These things happened for lessons to us in the latter ages.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29599
03 Dec 18
@ghost-of-a-duke said“No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven” (John 3:13).
If not heaven, where?
And let's not forget Elijah:
'And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.'
2 Kings 2:11 King James Version (KJV)
Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.' (2 Kings 2:11).
Contradiction anyone?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Dec 18
1 edit
Now some lighter hearted comment.
One person put it this way:
"Enoch was walking with God every day and night. One night he walked with God to the point that God said - 'Look Enoch, you're closer to My house then you are to your home. Why not just come home with Me?' "
Anyway God manifested His approval of Enoch's life and raptured him off of the earth.
" By faith Enoch was translated so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had translated him. For before his translation he obtained the testimony that he had been well pleasing to God." (Hebrews 11:5)
03 Dec 18
@sonship saidPlease see the last post on page 5, if you haven't already.2. Majority of Christians? You make it sound as though there are classes of Christians.
Only in the sense that some of us need to be imitators of those who are inheriting the promises. That is that ALL of us may be inheriting the promises.
[quote] "That you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and longsuffering are inheriting t ...[text shortened]... d I am happy the Holy Spirit is shedding this light for the church universal during these end times.
Some of your theology is difficult to follow. It sometimes sounds as if you're reading into the text ideas about the sequences of events and the reasons for them, events I know will occur, but are difficult to support by the text.
Know what I'm saying?
03 Dec 18
@ghost-of-a-duke saidNo contradiction, but maybe a clarification.
“No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven” (John 3:13).
Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.' (2 Kings 2:11).
Contradiction anyone?
Jesus came down from heaven, and then ascended back to heaven.
Enoch and Elijah did not come down from heaven.
Therefore no one but Jesus came down from heaven, and ascended back to heaven.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Dec 18
Please see the last post on page 5, if you haven't already.
Some of your theology is difficult to follow. It sometimes sounds as if you're reading into the text ideas about the sequences of events and the reasons for them, events I know will occur, but are difficult to support by the text.
Know what I'm saying?
Yes. And your should examine these things carefully. And you should follow what you feel God has shown you.
Now let me see what you are speaking of on "page 5".
And I would perhaps ask you to consider how difficult it was for some to follow Martin Luther when he said in essence -
"Look, it is right there in the Bible. We are justified by faith and not by works. It has been there all along."
After about a thousand years it was also difficult for many to grasp what Luther was so excited about. It is the same God. It is the same Holy Spirit leading his people into all of the truth.
Is there no longer any need for recovery of neglected truth?
There is still the need. That is all I would say at the moment to the "difficulty" matter which you legitimately raise.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
The Recovery Version of the Bible contains the footnotes and study notes of the brother whom God used to show us many of these things.
Those wanting to get more deeply into these matters could benefit from getting a Recovery Version of the Bible.
https://www.biblesforamerica.org/
The New Testament portion is given free.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29599
03 Dec 18
@secondson saidI would accept that argument if the passage read, '“No one has ascended to heaven 'after coming down' from heaven, apart from Jesus.'
No contradiction, but maybe a clarification.
Jesus came down from heaven, and then ascended back to heaven.
Enoch and Elijah did not come down from heaven.
Therefore no one but Jesus came down from heaven, and ascended back to heaven.
But it doesn't. It reads, '“No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven.' - In other words, 'only' Jesus has ascended to heaven. (Full stop).
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Dec 18
@SecondSon
Is this what you mean ?
Sonship, I don't believe "Christianity" will exist as we know it today post rapture.
I agree.
Let me have a moment to digest this whole post of yours.
03 Dec 18
@sonship said"Is there no longer any need for recovery of neglected truth?"
@SecondSon
Please see the last post on page 5, if you haven't already.
Some of your theology is difficult to follow. It sometimes sounds as if you're reading into the text ideas about the sequences of events and the reasons for them, events I know will occur, but are difficult to support by the text.
Know what I'm saying?
Yes. And your should e ...[text shortened]... need. That is all I would say at the moment to the "difficulty" matter which you legitimately raise.
I've heard this assertion before. That Truth is being recovered. By the church. In historical stages so to speak.
I question the validity of that idea. I don't necessarily believe the truth was ever really lost or forgotten so that it then needs to be recovered or even rediscovered.
I believe the truth has always been there and known by believers since the beginning, but Gutenberg's press revolutionized the proliferation of God's Word and the subsequent consequence of the idea that truth is being "recovered".
But what do I know?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Dec 18
3 edits
Do I need to be a member of the Local Churches demomination in order to be eligible for rapture?
Thanks for responding unequivocally.
Then include in your appreciation of my unequivocal reply that I do not concede to you that the local churches necessarily constitute another denomination.
It could happen. I do not concede to you that it MUST be so, Today Christians are returning to the practice of one city / one church. If that is necessarily denominationalism then the churches in the New Testament were denominations. The church in Jerusalem a denomination ? The church is Antioch a denomination? The church in Philippi a denomination?
Denomination has to do with how you receive Christians to assemble together with you. If the biblical criteria is only to be a believer and to be of a locality then to return to the ground of the local church is not necessarily another denomination.
So your question as posed was a leaningone. And I do not unequivocally except the premise OF the question.
That is Local Church is another denominational movement necessarily.
You know about the websites. Don't stop reading if you want to be clear.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Dec 18
4 edits
Do I need to be a member of the Local Churches demomination in order to be eligible for rapture?
Thanks for responding unequivocally.
Now you answer me unequivocally.
Were the saints in Acts meeting as "the church in Jerusalem" in a denomination ?
Were the believers in Corinth with all of there problems, as "the church which is in Corinth" meeting in a denomination?
The "church in Ephesus" (Rev. 2:1) was a denomination ?
Was the "church in Smyrna" (Rev. 2:8) with all her problems, a denomination?
Was "the church in Pergamos" (Rev. 2:12) with all HER problems, a denomination ?
Were each of the seven churches called after the seven cities by Jesus Christ all denominations?
03 Dec 18
1 edit
@sonship saidMy question is related to your particular church group; I accept that you don’t think of them as a “denomination”.
@divegeester
Do I need to be a member of the Local Churches demomination in order to be eligible for rapture?
Thanks for responding unequivocally.
Then include in your appreciation of my unequivocal reply that I do not concede to you that the local churches necessarily constitute another denomination.
It could happen. I do not concede to you tha ...[text shortened]... l movement necessarily.
You know about the websites. Don't stop reading if you want to be clear.
What I’m trying to ascertain is this; if I am not a member of your “Local Churches” group, will I be precluded from any form of rapture.
Your reply that “it could happen” is not very convincing in terms of me understanding if your church holds cultish type attitudes to this matter.
It used to be the same with Robbie Carrobie; he would hop from foot to foot on questions like this because he really believed that one had to be a member of the JWs in order to be x or y or z.
I do get a similar feeling from your replies sonship.