Churches made the Atheist.

Originally posted by duecer
geez we're almost the same age and I've tasted it at least a dozen times (siphoning can useful)😀

shaNaStay! >.<

Originally posted by whodey
If God is the source of love and the source of all that is "good", then all eyes should be focused upon him. All other things then become idolotrous including religions that do not focus on him.

I do realize that your view of God does not follow upon these lines, however, if God were truly the source of the love that we share with each other, then denying that source would be a travesty.

Actually the commandment clarifying that we are to honor our Father and Mother, brings to my attention honor EVERYONE, for my ONLY Father ( I always called my Dad "Dad" ) IS God, as HE declares in HIM we Live and Move and Have our Being, stating that Life (GOD) is within all, and why Christ said to love thy neighbor AS thyself.

But, it also says "let the dead bury their dead", however I rather all AWAKE to -what- Life IS, and acknowledge death is but the ignorant conceived influences man is so captive to, until they FOLLOW the Way the Truth and the life, thereby erAsing the conceived ignorance one was so acCUStomed to.

Originally posted by galveston75
I appreciate your stand and respect it. Many feel like yourself and see no need or proof that an organized way to worship God is necessary.
But in light of these scriptures it would be good to consider if that is a correct way that God is wanting.

Hebrews 10:24-25 (New International Version)
24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on t ...[text shortened]... rsion)
5 Trust in Jehovah with all thy heart, And lean not upon thine own understanding:

You are misunderstand my stance if you believe I’m against fellowship or
even organizations as well. My stance on both of those things is thus, with
fellowship you nailed it with scripture you gave Hebrews 10:24-25 is clear
on the matter. We should be in fellowship, God has not called us to stand
as islands alone without each other, we are a body, we need each other. My
point about denominations is that they do more to separate the body of
Christ than they do to allow it to fit nicely together. Denominations are
manmade structures that will not add to or take away from anyone’s
salivation, because we are saved by Jesus Christ, not by the name of the
sign on the building we fellowship at. If your hope is in anything other than
Jesus Christ you are missing the mark, there is salvation in no other.
Organizations are no different just as worthless as denominations towards
being right with God, God is not looking for a good XYZ, God sent Jesus for
us, if you are not right with Christ in God you are going to die in your sins.

With respect to all the other scriptures you strung together to support your
point, I think you are doing nothing but that! You are taking scripture a
little bit here, a line there, and so on to make it support the point you want
to prove. You were not rightly dividing scripture! You have a concluded your
point is true, and you just plucked scripture and strung them together, those
that kind of, sort of, back up what you were saying if you use them in the
manner you did, because there is nothing that actually comes out and says
it the way you want it too.
Kelly

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
.... only those who heeded the words of Christ were saved from the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD at the hands of Titus and the Roman legions,

Well presumably Jerusalem was destroyed regardless of who you heeded, and Titus and the Roman legions clearly didn't need saving. So who was saved, and what were they saved from?

similarly only those who are doing the will of the father shall be saved in the forthcoming great tribulation. Indeed who else is doing the will of the father?
I believe Jesus gave a parable where he said that the 'will of the father' was essentially that you help those worse off than yourself.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Well presumably Jerusalem was destroyed regardless of who you heeded, and Titus and the Roman legions clearly didn't need saving. So who was saved, and what were they saved from?

[b]similarly only those who are doing the will of the father shall be saved in the forthcoming great tribulation. Indeed who else is doing the will of the father?
I beli ...[text shortened]... id that the 'will of the father' was essentially that you help those worse off than yourself.[/b]

oh dear i suppose a poor little ol atheist like you must do with every scrap of scripture they can get,

(Luke 21:20-24)  “Furthermore, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near.  Then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her;  because these are days for meting out justice, that all the things written may be fulfilled. . .

It is a documented historical fact that Cestuis Gallus encamped and surrounded Jerusalem in the year 66CE and then for no explicable reason withdrew, leaving an opportunity for those who heeded the words of the Christ to withdraw from not only Jerusalem but Judea. When Titus returned he laid wast to Galilee and into Judea culminating in an utter destruction of Jerusalem in which all of Israel had been gathered for the passover celebration. It resulted in the death and enslavement of millions of persons.

Sorry you have provided no scriptural reference to back up your claim of what indeed, the doing of Gods will entails.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ok, but you do seem to be fond of our little quotation, don't you, i just would like you to know that it has a biblical basis, that is all 🙂

I find the quotation amusing, not because of what it says, but your reaction to it. I've always stated that i believe you have been assimilated, you're told what to think and believe by the collective, if i recall in my more provocative moments i've used the words drone or clone. Judging by what your other JW brother posted on here recently, about how he was proud that all JW's think the same, act the same, talk the same and look the same, i may not be too far off in my description.

But back to my point, your standard defence to my charge of assimilation by the collective, is that you have your own conscience etc etc, but this quote proves that you follow blindly. Before you and Galvo were saying that you didn't have to be a JW to attain everlasting life and i'm guessing that's something you've believed as long as you've been a member, but now that i found this text from your organisations literature the tune has changed, just like that.

If that's not an example of following blindly, what is it then?

Originally posted by KellyJay
You are misunderstand my stance if you believe I’m against fellowship or
even organizations as well. My stance on both of those things is thus, with
fellowship you nailed it with scripture you gave Hebrews 10:24-25 is clear
on the matter. We should be in fellowship, God has not called us to stand
as islands alone without each other, we are a body, we n ...[text shortened]... d, because there is nothing that actually comes out and says
it the way you want it too.
Kelly

Well you mention fellowship and agree with it. Where and when do you get it? Just an occasional visit to the local church or maybe some sporting event they put on or a the annual parking lot flea market?
And the other scriptures do apply completely to being part of a flock or group or organized teaching work such as explained in Matt the 24th & 28th chapters. One cannot do this work or know where it's done or even what is being taught at the doors in an organized and competent way unlesss on is involved with an organization and in the "oneness of mind" Jesus said we have to be..
We know this is a life saving work Jesus commanded his followers to do. If there were an impending disaster coming upon an area and no organized effort was put into affect to warn the local population but just left up to whoever gets out to warn them, it would no doubt be a terrible disaster.
Jesus and the apostles directed a very organized preaching and teaching work then and it is no different now.
So no we put no organization above Jesus and certianly not above his father Jehovah. But when they work thru an organization and support it and guide it to acomplish the ministry work we have to pay attention to it and be as involved as we can.

Originally posted by galveston75
“God is no longer a habitual concern for human beings. Less and less do they call him to mind as they go through their days or make their decisions. . . . God has been replaced by other values: income and productivity. He may once have been regarded as the source of meaning for all human activities, but today he has been relegated to the secret dungeons ...[text shortened]...  . God has disappeared from the consciousness of human beings.”—The Sources of Modern Atheism.

Regardless of who, what, where, why and/or how, this societal apostasy is necessary for certain prophecies to come to fruition. And it'll only get worse and worse, until Christians are eventually openly killed by the state for their faith.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Regardless of who, what, where, why and/or how, this societal apostasy is necessary for certain prophecies to come to fruition. And it'll only get worse and worse, until Christians are eventually openly killed by the state for their faith.

UnLESS death swallowed up unTO victory once more ( 1 Corinthians 15:54-55 - King James Version - ) , which will reSTORE all that is upside down in regards to Christianity, thereby MagniFYing the law and making it honorable as written "Isaiah 42:18-24 (King James Version)".

Originally posted by galveston75
Well you mention fellowship and agree with it. Where and when do you get it? Just an occasional visit to the local church or maybe some sporting event they put on or a the annual parking lot flea market?
And the other scriptures do apply completely to being part of a flock or group or organized teaching work such as explained in Matt the 24th & 28th ch ...[text shortened]... t to acomplish the ministry work we have to pay attention to it and be as involved as we can.

"Well you mention fellowship and agree with it. Where and when do you get it? Just an occasional visit to the local church or maybe some sporting event
they put on or a the annual parking lot flea market? "

This an attempt at being insulting?
Kelly

Originally posted by galveston75
Well you mention fellowship and agree with it. Where and when do you get it? Just an occasional visit to the local church or maybe some sporting event they put on or a the annual parking lot flea market?
And the other scriptures do apply completely to being part of a flock or group or organized teaching work such as explained in Matt the 24th & 28th ch ...[text shortened]... t to acomplish the ministry work we have to pay attention to it and be as involved as we can.

I'll address the rest of this later after the game.
Kelly

Originally posted by galveston75
Well you mention fellowship and agree with it. Where and when do you get it? Just an occasional visit to the local church or maybe some sporting event they put on or a the annual parking lot flea market?
And the other scriptures do apply completely to being part of a flock or group or organized teaching work such as explained in Matt the 24th & 28th ch ...[text shortened]... t to acomplish the ministry work we have to pay attention to it and be as involved as we can.

How do you even know what every Christian church does?? I think you make stuff up.
There would not even be JW's if not for Christianity.





Manny

Originally posted by KellyJay
"Well you mention fellowship and agree with it. Where and when do you get it? Just an occasional visit to the local church or maybe some sporting event
they put on or a the annual parking lot flea market? "

This an attempt at being insulting?
Kelly

No not at all but that seems to be the normal fellowshipping that most do. Right?

Originally posted by galveston75
No not at all but that seems to be the normal fellowshipping that most do. Right?

You end with a question? You tell me!! As you made the statement not me. Right? No I can't say right How do I know if every single Church does as you stated?






Manny

Originally posted by menace71
How do you even know what every Christian church does?? I think you make stuff up.
There would not even be JW's if not for Christianity.





Manny

Again Manny..most Witnesses used to belong to other religions. I'm 54 and have know thousands of Witnesses over my life so I do know plus with most people I know that aren't JW's, the conversation of religion usually comes up, and "most" are occansionally church goers at best.
Well, you are both right and wrong in the sence of modern day Christianity. It's because of the falseness of modern day so called Christianity that caused many truth seeking people back in the 19th century and even earlier to get out of their traditional Christian churchs because of knowing that many teachings were wrong and not Bible based and in fact many had pagan origins in their doctrines.
So it actually did help with the JW's in getting out of false religion.