05 Nov 19
@sonship saidAre you able to supply any kind of evidence that babies are not born void of God?
@moonbus
Everyone is born an atheist, lacking belief in God or gods. This sort, atheism 1a, is the default position.
If you notice in the maternity ward when the doctor smacks the newborn baby on the behind, the first thing that comes out is -
"Whaaaa! I lack a belief in God !!"
Now Ghost if you understand Agnostic Athiest then YOU answer.
When an Atheist decides God may be discovered in the future even if unprovable, hasn't he moved from Atheist to Agnostic ?
When an Agnostic decides RATHER then "Possibly? But Can't Prove" he has total lack of belief in God's existence, is he still an Agnostic?
05 Nov 19
@sonship saidWhen it comes to God and the supernatural, babies are void of belief. - Belief in such things is an intellectual process that babies simply don't possess.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Are you able to supply any kind of evidence that babies are not born void of God?
I don't think the issue here is what they are or are not void of but what is their belief.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Well, they certainly don't have a view about the profounder spiritual or philosophical issues of existence.
Hey, does everyone on the Internet have a positive opinion about Wikipedia ?
I bet you could find a few testimonials - "They did me dirt!"
06 Nov 19
@sonship saidClarifying agnostic atheism is almost synonymous with clarifying the Swiss Navy or Greater Manchester.
I have a few questions for those who have the guts to claim to be Atheists.
1.) Is the "Lack Of Belief in God" retained in Agnosticism?
When an Atheist who lacks belief in God or gods, decides that there MAY BE or COULD BE or PERHAPS but can't prove God or gods.
does that Atheist lose his lack of belief in God or gods?
2.) Is the Agnost ...[text shortened]... /b] a total lack of belief in God or gods and a partial lack of belief in God or gods?
@dj2becker saidToday words are loosing their true meaning to peoples feelings. People get upset now about so many things not said by others, so they “subjectivity” see evil and pronounce their own meaning into another’s speech as evil or hate speech, then act as if their claims reflect reality.
Clarifying agnostic atheism is almost synonymous with clarifying the Swiss Navy or Greater Manchester.
@kellyjay saidIt is sonship who seems "upset" by the term "agnostic atheist", not me. Theists' objection to it does not amount to much. What "true meaning" do you think is being lost when the term is used?
Today words are loosing their true meaning to peoples feelings. People get upset now about so many things not said by others, so they “subjectivity” see evil and pronounce their own meaning into another’s speech as evil or hate speech, then act as if their claims reflect reality.
@sonship said"total lack of belief in God's existence"
When an Agnostic decides RATHER then "Possibly? But Can't Prove" he has total lack of belief in God's existence, is he still an Agnostic?
You keep slipping the word "total" in there; perhaps you have a reason for doing so.
Do you acknowledge the difference between implicit atheism and explicit atheism? Or is this more vocabulary that simply puts your nose out of joint?
Do you accept that Ghost of a Duke is an explicit atheist and that I am an implicit atheist?
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou get this knowledge from something self evident because I don’t see it, that most certainly goes against scripture!
When it comes to God and the supernatural, babies are void of belief. - Belief in such things is an intellectual process that babies simply don't possess.
07 Nov 19
@kellyjay saidYou have told the story of how you started believing in God only once you were an adult so what is it about Ghost of a Duke pointing out that babies are born without a belief in God that you disagree with?
You get this knowledge from something self evident because I don’t see it, that most certainly goes against scripture!
@fmf saidBeing pro-choice (abortion) means that a right-wing American Christian probably has to adopt a “babies are all saved” philosophy in order to manage the rational.
You have told the story of how you started believing in God only once you were an adult so what is it about Ghost of a Duke pointing out that babies are born without a belief in God that you disagree with?
07 Nov 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidAs a matter of fact there is some evidence for this:
Are you able to supply any kind of evidence that babies are not born void of God?
What Andrew B. Newberg and others "discovered is that intensely focused spiritual contemplation triggers an alteration in the activity of the brain that leads one to perceive transcendent religious experiences as solid, tangible reality. In other words, the sensation that Buddhists call oneness with the universe.". The orientation area requires sensory input to do its calculus. "If you block sensory inputs to this region, as you do during the intense concentration of meditation, you prevent the brain from forming the distinction between self and not-self," says Newberg. With no information from the senses arriving, the left orientation area cannot find any boundary between the self and the world. As a result, the brain seems to have no choice but "to perceive the self as endless and intimately interwoven with everyone and everything." "The right orientation area, equally bereft of sensory data, defaults to a feeling of infinite space. The meditators feel that they have touched infinity." [1]The temporal lobe is associated with language, semantics and meaning [2]. Some people with temporal lobe epilepsy have intense religious experiences in the run up to a seizure [3].
In the page on the Insular Cortex [4] there is the following sentence:
The anterior insular cortex (AIC) is believed to be responsible for emotional feelings, including maternal and romantic love, anger, fear, sadness, happiness, sexual arousal, disgust, aversion, unfairness, inequity, indignation, uncertainty, disbelief, social exclusion, trust, empathy, sculptural beauty, a ‘state of union with God’, and hallucinogenic states.
So, the question becomes one of whether God is explained by the structure of our brains, or the structure of our brains explained by God. Is it a "true" religious experience or a delusion?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_religion
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_lobe
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_lobe_epilepsy#Society
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_cortex