08 Jul 08
Originally posted by FabianFnasSomeone once said (it might've been Nietzsche) that there has been only one Christian, and he died on the cross.
I've asked this question deep into a thread, but I didn't get any answers. So I try again in a separate thread: again
[b]What is the definition of a christian? What is the least denominator?[/b]
If you want to know what a Christian is, study Jesus Christ. Otherwise, find a dictionary.
08 Jul 08
Sorry to know that I'm taken for a troll.
So, basically, what some of you are saying is "There is as many definitions of "christian" as there are christians and non-christians put together?
Or this is an undebateble issue. The subject beeing so hot that noone dare to discuss it? Or perhaps that some of you forbids people to have opinions about it?
Well, the best definition I've seen this far (in my opinion) is "The one believing in John 3:16 is a christian". Thank you luctruc.
Who who don't agree with this definition, please raise your hand.
08 Jul 08
3 edits
Originally posted by FabianFnasTo be a Chrstian is to receive the life of Christ.
If I use Wikipedia, it wouldn't be much of a debate, would it?
I'm looking for a definition that we can agree upon. So when someone says "I'm a christian" I can tell if he is or not.
Like:
Does a christian have to believe in creationism?
Must a christian kill homosexuals, because it says so in the bible?
Must a christian be against abortion?
Is ...[text shortened]... can anyone say that "I am christian and therefore I have the truth about --- in my hand!"
Compare this to being a human. To be a human is to possess the human life.
To be a Christian is to possess the life of the resurrected Christ Who is Son of God.
Now having said that let's consider again being human. There are different ages of human and different degrees of growth and maturity in being a human. So it is with being a Christian.
There are baby humans. There are toddler humans. There are pre-adulescent humans. There are teenage humans. There are adult humans. And there are very mature humans.
Sometimes I think people think just arriving at being a Christian is the end all. Well, not completely. Suppose I said at the aqe of forty that the only thing I accomplished in my life was that I was born? That would not be too impressive on one hand.
"You mean that after forty years you are only impressed with the fact that you were born a human? What else?"
So with being a Christian. It is wonderful to be "born again" as a genuine Christian. But simply being "born again" or a "born again Christian" is not the end all of the Christian life. It is only the beginning.
Then there are naughty humans beings. And there are more successful human beings. So there are some naughty Christians and there are some successful Christians.
You may ask, "But haven't they ARRIVED? Are they not Christians?"
They have been born again - regenerated. But once you are born again , just like being born naturally, you are expected to gradually grow and more and more LIVE by that life by which you were born.
As a born human grows, and if her growth is normal, her functions come more and more into use. So with being born again. As the born again Christian matures, her or his life functions mature and come more into use.
There is retardation in human growth. One is born but for some sad reason is retarded. So with the spiritual life. One can be born again but be retarded as to the new life in Christ.
Of course as to being born again one has arrived at eternal redemption by the grace of God. That person will never perish forever but will have eternal life. But to be simply forgiven is not the goal of God for each one who is reborn in Christ. God's desire is that that new life would grow, spread, and saturate that person until thier soul is transformed into the same image as Christ.
So in this discussion on defining what and what not is a Christian, I would caution everyone. In the Bible simply arricing and being a Christian is not the sole end all of the matter. That is as true as not simply being born a human being is the end all of everything related to the human life.
Birth is the initiation. Birth is the beginning as far as LIVING by that life that you have received in a moment by moment and daily way.
08 Jul 08
Originally posted by FabianFnasDefinitions by definition cannot be debated.
If I use Wikipedia, it wouldn't be much of a debate, would it?
I'm looking for a definition that we can agree upon. So when someone says "I'm a christian" I can tell if he is or not.
I already told you that current usage of the word is relative and thus cannot be agreed upon.
You really don't seem to understand the concept of a definition.
We can reasonably expect people using the term to respect its origins including:
1. To use it to refer to a follower of a belief system (Christianity).
2. For the belief system in question to have as its central figure the person or entity known as 'Christ'.
However we cannot use a definition to create the truth. Whether a person fits a given definition or not will in no way affect that person.
An interesting question is - are all cristian preapare to accept a common definition, are are there many definitions du to ones personal beliefs?
I already answered that. No.
If there is no valid definition - can anyone say that "I am christian and therefore I have the truth about --- in my hand!"
All definitions are 'valid' unless they are incoherent or meaningless. A person making the above statement might be correct if the definition he is using includes a result that a person fitting the definition will have the truth about ---. Whether his definition matches anyone elses is irrelevant.
08 Jul 08
1 edit
From my study it seems that "Christian" was originally a derogatory term. This would be something like being called a Moonie today.
The book of Acts says that the disciples of Jesus were first called "Christians" at the city of Antioch. Now all one really has to do is read previous to that in Acts what the disciples of Jesus were and you can know what was meant by "Christian".
Somehow I doubt that many are interested in doing that here.
08 Jul 08
Originally posted by twhiteheadNow we're getting somewhere...
Definitions by definition cannot be debated.
[b]I'm looking for a definition that we can agree upon. So when someone says "I'm a christian" I can tell if he is or not.
I already told you that current usage of the word is relative and thus cannot be agreed upon.
You really don't seem to understand the concept of a definition.
We can reasonably ...[text shortened]... have the truth about ---. Whether his definition matches anyone elses is irrelevant.[/b]
If a definition is totally accepted by everyone, then there is nothing much to debate upon. Agreed. But until then the agreeing of one def and one only of course a great opportunity to debate. Do we all (here) agree on one definition only? No, I don't think so. As you say, it's relative to everyone.
But Math 3:16 is a good start. I think noone says this is wrong.
But, again, what about my friend:
"A friend of mine says she's a christian, but still she likes the buddhist idea idea of reincarnation. She believes in John 3:16 but is that enough in her case?"
I say that she is not because reincarnation is *not* a part of the christian beliefs. (She is very eastern in her beliefs, so essentially she is a religious mix.) She says she is, does this suffice to be a christian? Just to say "I am a christian!"?
Everyone knowing me knows that I'm not christian, but I'm not anti-christian, not at all. I am anti-fundamentalist if I am anything, but this has nothing to do with christianity of per se. Jewish, muslim, buddhist, whatever, doesn't matter, if they are fundamentalists, I am anti.
So my qeustion here is serious, I don't troll. I'm genuinly interested of what christians from all parts of the worlsd thinks about what it is being a christian.
08 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasThe authoritative historical document on all aspects of being a Christian is the New Testament.
Sorry to know that I'm taken for a troll.
So, basically, what some of you are saying is "There is as many definitions of "christian" as there are christians and non-christians put together?
Or this is an undebateble issue. The subject beeing so hot that noone dare to discuss it? Or perhaps that some of you forbids people to have opinions about it?
". Thank you luctruc.
Who who don't agree with this definition, please raise your hand.
It tells us that the disciples of Jesus were first called "Christians" in the city of Antioch. So if you read through much of the book of Acts on what the disciples of Jesus were, then you can understand what a Christian is.
The world began to use the term Chrstians for these disciples.
One of the letters of Peter suggests that it was a deragatory term. He wrote in essense "If you suffer as a Christian, that's a good thing" (paraphrase).
The suggestion is that it was therefore a deragotory label. The cloesest thing I can think of today is being called a Moonie for following Rev. Sun Myoung Moon.
08 Jul 08
2 edits
A Christian is pretty simple. Anyone who believes that Jesus died on the cross to forgive sin. What they then do with it and the rest of the Bible is what makes them into seperate classifications and hypocrites of each other all thinking they have been blessed with understanding the Bible while contradicting each other in their needs to be the 'super-power'..
08 Jul 08
Originally posted by twhiteheadWikipedia is a useless array of gibberish.
Well if you want the official definition, use a Dictionary, or Wikipedia.
If you want common usage then see my post.
If you want to make up your own, then feel free to do so, just give us the courtesy of noting your definition whenever you use it so we can understand you.
If you want us to make up one that fits your requirements then WWindmill's ...[text shortened]... t then maybe you could just ask him to send you a list of all the people he likes very much.
08 Jul 08
Originally posted by twhiteheadI don't know how you did it, but I think you hit on the truth. I'm still chuckling. 🙂
Well if you want the official definition, use a Dictionary, or Wikipedia.
If you want common usage then see my post.
If you want to make up your own, then feel free to do so, just give us the courtesy of noting your definition whenever you use it so we can understand you.
If you want us to make up one that fits your requirements then WWindmill's ...[text shortened]... t then maybe you could just ask him to send you a list of all the people he likes very much.