Originally posted by FabianFnasI can't think of any Bible prophecies that 'didn't happen as they were told,' so please inform me.
I can think there are lots of prophecies from the bible that didn't happened as they were told.
I'm getting a bit tired of statements or truth claims that have no evidence to back them up, so in future if you have no evidence, please don't waste my time with your unsubstansiated opinions.
You say you don't believe in prophecy for 'scientific reasons', but the cornerstone of science is evidence and I see none in your case. Again, please present it if you have it.
I sorry for getting so irritated, but all the anti-Bible posts have been LONG on talk and SHORT on evidence. In all the treads on this forum I have not come accross one intellegent argument backed up with credible evidence that can be verified.
So I'll make my plea one more time:
PLEASE SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE!!!!
Originally posted by Henry23So what happens if I find one prophecy that is false? What will you do? Become an atheist? Just so I know what's in stake here.
I can't think of any Bible prophecies that 'didn't happen as they were told,' so please inform me.
I'm getting a bit tired of statements or truth claims that have no evidence to back them up, so in future if you have no evidence, please don't waste my time with your unsubstansiated opinions.
You say you don't believe in prophecy for 'scientific reason ...[text shortened]... ience is evidence and I see none in your case. Again, please present it if you have it.
There are false prophecies, believe me. Bibles prophecies are as good as Nostradamus'.
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The fact that the bible contains passages saying things like 'you shall not kill' (or words to that effect) and others that say witches should be burned and women should be stoned for adultery, or similar.
I'm sure someone will find the relevant passages (in their particular translation) however here is a link to a web page with a few suggestions.
I don't know if the people behind it are biased against the literal interpretation of the bible (probably) but if you don't like any of them look them up yourself and check.
http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Inconsistencies_in_the_Bible
Originally posted by Henry23I have the evidence as you wanted.
I sorry for getting so irritated, but all the anti-Bible posts have been LONG on talk and SHORT on evidence. In all the treads on this forum I have not come accross one intellegent argument backed up with credible evidence that can be verified.
So I'll make my plea one more time:
[b] PLEASE SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE!!!![/b]
But before I give it to you, I have given you a question. You have seen it, I know, but you seem to chicken out.
Do you want me to repeat my question?
Okay, here it is:
"So what happens if I find one prophecy that is false? What will you do? Become an atheist? Just so I know what's in stake here."
Seems that Henry23 is afraid to get his evidence...
He knows that I have evidence of false prophecies in the bible, I've mailed him.
And this is only so symptomatic of christian people. They chose to look the other way instead of jeopardize their faith, their weak faith. Think of what will happen if their faith gets a crack, that they will lose their faith completely when they see evidence in the eye.
He started a chicken race. He lost this chicken race. He is a chicken.
Originally posted by FabianFnasIf you find one Biblical prophecy (in other words, one made by God and not by man) that you think is false and can present some credible evidence to back up your claim I will be surprised, since all you've done up to now is make unsubstanciated claims. If you really had any evidence I think you'd have presented it by now.
I have the evidence as you wanted.
But before I give it to you, I have given you a question. You have seen it, I know, but you seem to chicken out.
Do you want me to repeat my question?
Okay, here it is:
"So what happens if I find one prophecy that is false? What will you do? Become an atheist? Just so I know what's in stake here."
To answer your question, if you do present any evidence I'll check it out and test it to see if it's genuine.
And please, don't come and present some eschatological prophecy that will only be fulfilled in the end times and then say it has not yet been fulfilled. Obviously some prophecies, like Jesus' second coming will only be fulfilled later.
Originally posted by FabianFnasBy the way, people who have the truth don't need excuses or permission to present it, but if you feel you need permission I hereby grant it...
Seems that Henry23 is afraid to get his evidence...
He knows that I have evidence of false prophecies in the bible, I've mailed him.
And this is only so symptomatic of christian people. They chose to look the other way instead of jeopardize their faith, their weak faith. Think of what will happen if their faith gets a crack, that they will lose their ...[text shortened]... evidence in the eye.
He started a chicken race. He lost this chicken race. He is a chicken.
Well, dear Henry, you challenged me, I didn't challenge you. You take the consequences.
Let me first quote you some:
"I can't think of any Bible prophecies that 'didn't happen as they were told,' so please inform me."
Then you don't know your bible very well.
"I'm getting a bit tired of statements or truth claims that have no evidence to back them up"
Tire no more. You have challenged me. I meet up the challenge.
"Please present your proof that the Bible's prophecies are not credible either"
Patience, patience, my dear Henry.
"all the anti-Bible posts have been LONG on talk and SHORT on evidence"
And now you're about to get evidence that prophecies are just guessings, nothing holy about them. No more prophecies that any betting service or book-maker gives. Somtimes the prophecies, or fore telling falls out, they are remembered. Sometimes they are not, they are forgotten.
"PLEASE SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE!!!"
And now you engage the chicken race. Who is the chicken? You or me?
I say that I've found a prophecy that didn't happen.
I say that you will avoid the proof by saying something like 'Oh that is not a prophecy, so this doesn't count' or something.
So before I present the evidence, I would like to define what you think is a prophecy?
I say a prophecy is when god says something about the future, anything. Do you agree? My evidence is one prophecy that is not fulfilled. I have a such.
Oh, I have the proof, be sure of that. I just want to hear the drums a little bit more. The chicken race is rolling! Who will be the chicken? Henry or me?
Originally posted by FabianFnasThe mere fact that I had to challenge you to get you to even threaten to produce some scrap of evidence already speaks volumes. You are clearly very short on evidence, because if the Bible were false there would be an abundance of evidence.
Well, dear Henry, you challenged me
The fact that you have to introduce your supposed evidence, which you are still only threatening to produce, with a drum role and who knows what else just reinforces your desperation.
But there's more...
Originally posted by FabianFnasThe fact that you already have to start making excuses for you 'evidence' before you've even presented it really does not inspire any confidence.
"PLEASE SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE!!!"
And now you engage the chicken race. Who is the chicken? You or me?
I say that I've found a prophecy that didn't happen.
I say that you will avoid the proof by saying something like 'Oh that is not a prophecy, so this doesn't count' or something.
And yes, whether you like it or not, I will scrutinize your 'evidence', because that's the scientific way; and if it has been found wanting I will reject it, because that's what intellegent people do - they test all things and reject the useless.
In my next post I'll answer your question as to what prophecy is.
Originally posted by FabianFnasI found this guideline for prophecy on http://www.windmillministries.org/frames/CH24A.htm:
So before I present the evidence, I would like to define what you think is a prophecy?
I say a prophecy is when god says something about the future, anything. Do you agree? My evidence is one prophecy that is not fulfilled.
Since prophecies attract intense skepticism, we will apply some tough criteria:
Written before fulfillment: It has to be proved that the prophecy was written down well before the predicted event would have occurred.
Unambiguous: The prophecy has to be clear and its meaning beyond dispute. Vague wording open for multiple interpretations could be genuine, but such prophecies will not be considered in this analysis.
Historically fulfilled: The fulfillment of the prophecy has to be historically recorded, not open to misinterpretation, and carry some significance.
No intentional fulfillment: The fulfillment has to be beyond control of any involved party, that is, it could not have been an intentional fulfillment.
I say a prophecy is when god says something about the future, anything. Do you agree? My evidence is one prophecy that is not fulfilled.
Yes, and Biblical prophecy is prophecy that God has had recorded in the Bible.
So, just to be sure we agree of the very definition of what a real prophecy is, I ask the question very clearly:
(1) When god says "this will happen", that is a prophecy. True or false?
(2) And when "this" is not happening, then the prophecies is faulty. True or false?
(3) And if I can find such a faulty prophecy, then the proof is valid. True or false?
When you have answered 'true' on these three questions, we can both be sure that we are agreeing in the matters, then I will give you the proof. This is my promise in honour to you.