29 Aug 23
@philokalia saidSo if a Christian "casually lies, fornicates, thinks evil thoughts against their neighbour, etc." and DOESN'T think they will be forgiven and DOESN'T intend to repent while they are engaging in those "sins"... then those "sins" WILL be forgiven if they repent later, is that your stance?
(1) A person who casually lies, fornicates, thinks evil thoughts against their neighbor, etc., all just to repent later, has not actually repented...
@fmf said@Philokalia
Are "theologically very ignorant Christians without much retrospection" held to a different standard to other Christians?
You answered "Yes". So, consider this new version of the OP:
Christian politicians, regardless of being on the left or right, can deliberately lie in the course of their political activities safe in the "knowledge" [i.e. belief] that Christ sacrificed his life to forgive their sins and they can repent later as long as they are theologically very ignorant Christians without much retrospection. Discuss
Is your answer "Yes, that's true"?
@fmf saidWhy do people still talk to you?
So if a Christian "casually lies, fornicates, thinks evil thoughts against their neighbour, etc." and DOESN'T think they will be forgiven and DOESN'T intend to repent while they are engaging in those "sins"... then those "sins" WILL be forgiven if they repent later, is that your stance?
I'm stumped too.
@suzianne saidThis banter of yours was in reply to this post by me:
Why do people still talk to you?
I'm stumped too.
So if a Christian "casually lies, fornicates, thinks evil thoughts against their neighbour, etc." and DOESN'T think they will be forgiven and DOESN'T intend to repent while they are engaging in those "sins"... then those "sins" WILL be forgiven if they repent later, is that your stance?
If you cannot discern how that question arises organically from the ideological point Philokalia was making to me, then no wonder you are reduced to simply carping from the sidelines.
29 Aug 23
@philokalia saidIs it your view, then, that when a Christian deliberately lies, they should assume that they will not be forgiven and that the deliberate lie will mean they face damnation?
For when you are taking forgiveness for granted, as a thing you can just walk up and claim, you are sinning against the Holy Spirit in the very moment that you are supposed to be repenting.
30 Aug 23
@fmf saidI would say that the second you have the voice in your head telling you to not commit a sin, you have to really stop yourself and do everything to avoid it, to not become overwhelmed by the passions, etc.
Is it your view, then, that when a Christian deliberately lies, they should assume that they will not be forgiven and that the deliberate lie will mean they face damnation?
And, if you end up still committing the sin, driven forward by rationalizations or whatever it may be, you have demonstrated that you have not been able to recast yourself in the image of Christ, and it is a failure.
If it is a large sin, this really does mean taking accountability for it. For instance, you should tell your spouse if you have committed adultery. You should confess a murder if you did something so grave... Etc.
If it is a smaller one, it is still a serious affair, and it requires accountability and whatever actions you need to get your life back on the track...
You can be forgiven. You will be forgiven if you're contrite and putting your best foot forward.
Since we are all flawed, this is a lifelong struggle.
30 Aug 23
@philokalia saidThanks for the background information. I will ask once more in the hope of getting a point blank answer:
I would say that the second you have the voice in your head telling you to not commit a sin, you have to really stop yourself and do everything to avoid it, to not become overwhelmed by the passions, etc.
And, if you end up still committing the sin, driven forward by rationalizations or whatever it may be, you have demonstrated that you have not been able to rec ...[text shortened]... ntrite and putting your best foot forward.
Since we are all flawed, this is a lifelong struggle.
When a Christian deliberately lies, should they assume that they will not be forgiven and that the deliberate lie will mean they face damnation?
30 Aug 23
@divegeester saidAnd you have "detailed files".
Talking to FMF seems to be one of your main preoccupations at RHP.