Dishonest Christian politicians

@philokalia said
So, right there, the answer to the question would be that a Christian ought to not sin, not count on forgiveness, and be repentant for the mere idea of lying so easily crossing into their minds.

Does this mean that your answer to the question:

When they deliberately lie, should Christians assume they might not be forgiven and thus face damnation?

..is "Yes"?

@fmf said
So there can be no repentance if one actively and knowingly engages in "sin"?

Repentance is never cut off if we live to see the after sin, but a chronic sinner has to battle hard against their illness.

So a politician who finds themselves habitually lying and deceiving the masses is certainly in a difficult position spiritually.

Imagine the Catholic Joe Biden died today in denial of all his crimes in his high position of office..!

I can judge no man but I am not envious of that position.

@philokalia said
No, they cannot assume that they can deliberately lie (and not white lies - "no, dear, you do not look fat in that dress"😉, lie to deceive, lie for personal gain...

... and that they will be forgiven...

We face judgment for all our actions, and thus the idea tht I can tell alie for personal gain and just assume I will be forgiven because I simply [i]ask[/i ]once is ...[text shortened]... tion for our sins...

Yet, to try to use this to suggest that lying is unforgivable is also wrong.

So a Christian who deliberately lies, he or she faces damnation because, if it was deliberate, then there can be no repentance, right?

@philokalia said
Imagine the Catholic Joe Biden died today in denial of all his crimes in his high position of office.

"Crimes"?

@philokalia said
So a politician who finds themselves habitually lying and deceiving the masses is certainly in a difficult position spiritually.

By "in a difficult position spiritually", do you mean they face damnation despite being repentant?

I decided to ask Bing this question to see how an artificial intelligence would respond to FMF's query:

"Can Christian politicians lie and just assume they will be forgiven later?"

This is what Bing said:

Lying is generally considered a sin in Christianity, and Christians are encouraged to be truthful in their words and actions 1. The Bible states that “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” (Exodus 20:16), which is interpreted as a prohibition against lying 1.

Regarding your question, it is not appropriate for Christian politicians to lie and assume they will be forgiven later. Christians are called to live a life of integrity and honesty, even when it is difficult or inconvenient 1. Lying goes against this principle and is considered a sin 1.

It is important to note that forgiveness is not a license to sin. While God is always willing to forgive, it is important for Christians to acknowledge their sins and seek repentance 1. Repentance involves a change of mind that leads to action - the radical turning away from a sinful course to God 2.

In conclusion, Christian politicians should strive to live a life of integrity and honesty, even when it is difficult or inconvenient. They should acknowledge their mistakes and seek forgiveness from God when they fall short of this standard 1.

Is that a satisfactory answer, FMF?

@philokalia said
Yet, to try to use this to suggest that lying is unforgivable is also wrong.

As you well know, I did not suggest that "lying is unforgivable", but I see what you did there.

@philokalia said
Is that a satisfactory answer, FMF?

I did not read past "I decided to ask Bing".

If you can't engage in a chat on a message board without resorting to this kind of thing, so be it.

@fmf said
I did not read past "I decided to ask Bing".

If you can't engage in a chat on a message board without resorting to this kind of thing, so be it.

OK, but serious question:

Do you consider this thread to be a failure?

I ask because even artificial intelligence, when put to your question, gives a sensible answer that affirms that

- Christians shouldn't lie
- Christian politicians don't have a license to lie
- There is not some meltdown in Christianity because "it's possible to be forgiven your sins" that is a backdoor to unlimited sin..!

So maybe this fishing expedition for controversy was just a bad faith setup from the start, right?

@philokalia said
Do you consider this thread to be a failure?

No.

@philokalia said
I ask because even artificial intelligence, when put to your question, gives a sensible answer

If your own attempts at answering the question are prevarication and evasive and you end up using artificial intelligence to deal with it rather than your own, well that's a matter for you.

@philokalia said
So maybe this fishing expedition for controversy was just a bad faith setup from the start, right?

Call it how you see it.

@fmf said
If your own attempts at answering the question are pevaricating and evasive and you end up using artificial intelligence to deal with it rather than your own, well that's a matter for you.

I think it was easy to use artificial intelligence to show that the question would normally be answeredwith a few parts to it, right...

Obviously, Christian politicains can't just lie in good conscience; there is no "button" you push to erase sin and repent without consequence that enables unlimited sin. Everybody knows that.

It is also the case that you can get forgiveness for your failings...

So a Christian who treats their religion as an excuse to sin, as just a "delete history" button, is completely wrong... But also a Christian who believes that they cannot be saved from their past transgressions even if they truly repent is also wrong...

The bomb is pretty easily defused by AI in a few short paragraphs...

... just as how I tried to answer this and explain it in good faith earlier in the thread...

Right?

@philokalia said
I think it was easy to use artificial intelligence to show that the question would normally be answeredwith a few parts to it, right...

Obviously, Christian politicains can't just lie in good conscience; there is no "button" you push to erase sin and repent without consequence that enables unlimited sin. Everybody knows that.

It is also the case that [i]you can get ...[text shortened]... just as how I tried to answer this and explain it in good faith earlier in the thread...

Right?

If you have to resort to using artificial intelligence, then maybe you should be chatting with someone else.

@philokalia said
https://www.bing.com/search?pglt=169&q=define+interface&cvid=52fc87fb1f7841278e797ad399b16511&aqs=edge.0.0l9.2730j0j1&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=EDGEDB

I was questioning your pretentious use of the word.