12 Dec 12
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne[b]Until a man changes his mind about Christ (the correct meaning of 'repent'😉, there is no hope of spiritual birth, eternal salvation and an eternal relationship with God forever in Heaven.
Can you elaborate on exactly what you believe is "the correct meaning of 'repent'"?
Perhaps the above was unclear. I was asking for you to ...[text shortened]... EXACTLY what YOU believe is "the correct meaning of 'repent'" given the above context.[/b]Change of mind:
http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/repent.htm
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12 Dec 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou ducked the Question Robbie!
lol, you atheists and anti religionists are a bunch of moaners! emotional crutch or
support in time of need, nice spin doctor, but its a matter of perspective and clearly you
need an eye test, see your spiritual optician before your myopia gets too acute, if you
are not already certified blind.
Does it matter what their religion is?
It seems to me you are arguing to support all religions which offer comfort (are there any that dont?) and the truth of an individual religion is irrelevant.
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12 Dec 12
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYeah, great, people can convincingly imagine places it wouldn't be nice to visit, let alone spend eternity.
One afterlife place that you might not like to go...
http://www.youall.com/HELL/dante.htm
or this one (lol)
http://www2.connectseward.org/edu/shs/students/students11/TaylorKumm/dante/circle9.html
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My question was about somewhere I would WANT to spend eternity.
Because an eternity of ANYTHING I don't like is going to be torture.
An eternity of anything unpleasant will send any human being insane, the question is simply how long it will take.
The only difference between your descriptions of heaven and hell is that hell will send you insane faster.
So I ask again...
Can you describe a heaven that I would actually want to go to?
Because until you can your religion has nothing to offer me even if it were true.
12 Dec 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI was using the Tooth Fairy as an analogy.
really, i don't expect they have heard of your tooth fairy, they are after all from
Southern India which has rather vibrant spiritual community unaffected by western
materialism and the emptiness that it forebodes.
The Tooth fairy is an imaginery creature (I hope you agree) which brings comfort to children with sore teeth.
The fact that children believe in the Tooth Fairy and that their belief brings
them comfort, is no proof of the Tooth Fairy's existance.
If believing in God brings comfort (and undoubtably it does to some) it
is still no evidence for the existance of a god.
Get it?
(Please dont play dumb ... you'll turn into RJH)
12 Dec 12
Originally posted by wolfgang59no one is claiming that it is mr strawberry fields forever!
I was using the Tooth Fairy as an analogy.
The Tooth fairy is an imaginery creature (I hope you agree) which brings comfort to children with sore teeth.
The fact that children believe in the Tooth Fairy and that their belief brings
them comfort, is no proof of the Tooth Fairy's existance.
If believing in God brings comfort (and undoubtably it do ...[text shortened]... dence for the existance of a god.
Get it?
(Please dont play dumb ... you'll turn into RJH)
12 Dec 12
Originally posted by wolfgang59in this instance something is better than nothing.
You ducked the Question Robbie!
Does it matter what their religion is?
It seems to me you are arguing to support all religions which offer comfort (are there any that dont?) and the truth of an individual religion is irrelevant.
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13 Dec 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe salient difference between me and you in this is that I care about the truth first.
in this instance something is better than nothing.
You care about feeling warm and fuzzy first.
Sometimes the truth sucks.
Discovering that you have late stage malignant cancer and you have maybe a few weeks
left to live sucks. It's a case where the truth really hurts.
If you want to know the truth then there will be times when the truth is something painful,
or awful.
My position is that I want to know the truth no mater how painful that truth is to me.
You however ask what we as atheists have to offer people in need, and point out that we have
no shiny afterlife to offer people as comfort.
And you are right, we don't.
That's because the evidence indicates rather strongly (beyond any and all reasonable doubt) that
no such afterlives actually exist.
So to the best of our ability to know, we know that there is no afterlife, there are no souls or spirits,
and there are no gods.
Personally, I am not bothered by that fact, possibly because I have never really expected anything
other than that. However I realise that some find the idea of an afterlife comforting.
But that doesn't in any way shape or form effect whether or not an afterlife ACTUALLY EXISTS.
Reality has no requirement to be nice.
Reality can just kill you utterly and completely with no warning for no reason.
Reality can be horribly painful, and there is no big father figure in the sky making it all work out right in the end.
The fact that some people can't cope with that, or find it unpleasant doesn't stop it from being true.
You can't claim to care about what is or is not true and at the same time require the truth to match up to
some preconceived ideas you have about what it SHOULD be like.
If you, or anyone else, really cares about truth, then you must be prepared to accept whatever the evidence
demonstrates to be true. No matter how painful it might be.
There is all kinds of support I can and will offer fellow human beings in trouble or distress.
Offering comforting lies however is not one of those things.
13 Dec 12
Originally posted by wolfgang59What future is this? Yours? Mine? Probably not going to happen.
So it doesn't matter if their faith is true or not?
Religions' only redeeming factor is that it offers an emotional crutch to the weak in their hour of need. Indeed the success of religion is due entirely to
the misfortunes of man.
But now and in the future with rising standards, less poverty, less suffering and
less degradation there will be no need of religion.
13 Dec 12
Originally posted by googlefudgeNo. My religion has nothing to offer you *because* it's true.
Yeah, great, people can convincingly imagine places it wouldn't be nice to visit, let alone spend eternity.
My question was about somewhere I would WANT to spend eternity.
Because an eternity of ANYTHING I don't like is going to be torture.
An eternity of anything unpleasant will send any human being insane, the question is simply how long it will ...[text shortened]... to go to?
Because until you can your religion has nothing to offer me even if it were true.