Does one need to believe in Jesus for salvation.

@divegeester said
Oh ok, sorry I missed you saying that.

Good back and forth so far.

@secondson said

I read nowhere in the scriptures that one is saved on the basis of "diligently seeking God". It's not there!

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I'm going to go one step further and throw Romans 2:15 into the thread (and then hide in the corner)
.

"They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them."

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I'm going to go one step further and throw Romans 2:15 into the thread (and then hide in the corner)
.

"They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them."

@kingdavid403 said
May I use you as one example in my future stated opinion? At least what I think I know?

@divegeester said
Please don’t do a “sonship” and deliver a blog. I bore easily and would hate to offend you by not reading half of it.

If you do feel the need to bore then pants off of us all with a hefty word salad, then could I request that you preci the part you want me to reply to in the first couple of sentences please?

Thanks in eternity

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I'm going to go one step further and throw Romans 2:15 into the thread (and then hide in the corner)
.

"They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them."

@secondson said
Well, of course it sounds as though you might have something there, but I will have to throw a monkey wrench into your inference.

While that verse may appear to be saying they're saved because they "show that the work of the law is written on their hearts", it's not saying anything about them being saved because of it, it doesn't say that, nor is it inferred.

The pass ...[text shortened]... ion and forgiveness of sins, then merely being good and obeying ones conscience won't get one saved.

@kingdavid403 said
May I use you as one example in my future stated opinion? At least what I think I know? As I really don't.

I will post my position sometime tomorrow.
In the mean-time, I want to post this on the Oneness of God.
I want to make clearly certain to all, that in no way am I attempting to change Scriptures, or the meanings of them, or attempting to commit heresy.
Please ponder on His Oneness; and, I hope this post can help some.
This post of scriptures does relate to my position.
I really will not be back from now until tomorrow, as I have things that need to be done.
God Bless. 🙂

Post:
God's Oneness.
God’s Oneness
[John 14:7-11 NKJV] 7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him." 8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." 9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own [authority]; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 "Believe Me that I [am] in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

Now, Turn it around as if it is the Father Speaking of Son; as They are One: (paraphrased)
If you had known me, you would have known My Son also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him. Philip said to Him (Father) show us the Son, and it is sufficient for us. The Father said to him, Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Son, so how can you say, ‘show us the Son?
Do you not believe that I am in the Son, and the Son is in Me? The Words that I Speak to you, I Speak on My [authority]; but the Son Who dwells in Me does My Works.
Believe Me that I am in the Son and the Son in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the Works themselves.

Thoughts?
See ya all tomorrow. 🙂

@secondson said

If the scriptures teach, and they do, that "salvation" CANNOT be earned, that it was procured by Jesus on the cross, without our input or by our works, that eternal life is a gift, that one must believe in Jesus and trust in Him alone for salvation and forgiveness of sins, then merely being good and obeying ones conscience won't get one saved.

@rajk999 said
Jesus said no such thing. Your church has deceived you. Here are the words of Jesus:

[i]For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. (Matthew 16:27 KJV)

@divegeester said
Doesn’t say anything about “salvation”, just rewards.

However this scripture is robust and explains faith and good works:

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God pre ...[text shortened]... eforehand that we should walk in them.

Salvation is free, discipleship and works cost everything.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Are we in agreement sir that the underlying thrust of Romans 2 is that it really doesn't matter if you are a Jew or a Gentile, that God loves all humans the same?

And if so, why wouldn't an omnipotent deity save everyone?