13 Jul 20
3 edits
@KingDavid403
I've given my Christian Worldview and position on this question to all.
I've given scriptures to support this thread. I have answered almost all possible questions on this subject in one post or another here. I hope that the readers here can learn from it; whether One believes it or not.
Not much more to say except repeated augments. I'll keep a look out for anything new.
God Bless, you all.
13 Jul 20
@fmf saidNo. You have not even come close.
It does not entitle me; it does enable me.
I really have not gone into depth on my true stance on the statement or subject above.
So your version of "Christianity" enables you to casually assert things - having admittedly not given the stance much thought - about the "salvation" of someone who DOES believe in Jesus - even though you admit that you are not entitled to do it?
Have I understood your self- justification correctly?
13 Jul 20
@kingdavid403 saidI do not believe there is any "salvation". I believe death is the end. And so your assertions about not needing to believe in Jesus are meaningless to me.
lol... Interesting. I feel like I'm being accused of apostasy or hearsay from an Atheist. Interesting for sure.
You got any theory's?
@kingdavid403 saidWell, you're not. Words like apostasy, heresy and blasphemy are used to describe what theists think about deviations from their religions. I am not a theist and I am not a religionist.
lol... Interesting. I feel like I'm being accused of apostasy or hearsay from an Atheist.
13 Jul 20
@kingdavid403 saidI have given you two rock solid scriptures supporting the position that a person needs to believe in Jesus in order to be saved; you have rejected both for various convoluted and Hebrew/OT prophet existential reasons none of which address the core premise of what is stated in those scriptures. There are dozens more...
Give it again; and, I was NOT talking with you there.
- Unless you believe that I am (he) you will die in your sins
- there is no other name (Than Jesus) under heaven by which we may be saved
- as many has a obey my voice, they shall be called the sons of god
- in him (Jesus) we live, move and have our being
- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life
- If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved
Jesus Christ is the only way to god and the only way to be saved. Where I will deviate from accepted thinking are on these related topics:
- there is no such thing as hell and especially eternal suffering
- salvation is therefore about living and experiencing the eternal life, of the next life, in the here and now.
- God is one not three, Jesus Christ is the exact physical representation of the spiritual god, his avatar if I can be so crass.
And in concession to your reaching to the salvation of the prophets I will offer you this:
1 Peter 1 : 10-11
Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow.
The spirit of Christ is eternal and transcends time.
13 Jul 20
4 edits
@divegeester saidI have given you two rock solid scriptures supporting the position that a person needs to believe in Jesus in order to be saved;
I have given you two rock solid scriptures supporting the position that a person needs to believe in Jesus in order to be saved; you have rejected both for various convoluted and Hebrew/OT prophet existential reasons none of which address the core premise of what is stated in those scriptures. There are dozens more...
- Unless you believe that I am (he) you will die in ...[text shortened]... siah and the glories that would follow. [/i]
The spirit of Christ is eternal and transcends time.
Yes, you have.
you have rejected both for various convoluted and Hebrew/OT prophet existential reasons none of which address the core premise of what is stated in those scriptures.
I have not rejected anything.
There are dozens more...
Yes, there are.
And in concession to your reaching to the salvation of the prophets I will offer you this:
1 Peter 1 : 10-11
Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow.
Nice.
Now, again, if someone is truly and diligently seeking God, but they don't know Jesus yet, are they still saved at that time?
This is my question to you and others here; and, no one here has clearly answered this simple question.
I clearly know no one is saved except by Jesus; I'm asking about someone who is truly seeking God but does not know Jesus yet.
Does God's mercy, love, and forgiveness, still cover them and save them?
Can you or anyone else here tell me that this person is going to hell because they do not know Jesus yet? Even tho they're diligently seeking God?
Scriptures please?
Simple really.
13 Jul 20
@kingdavid403 saidOh sorry.... then you agree that agree that a belief in Jesus is necessary for salvation after all?
you have rejected both for various convoluted and Hebrew/OT prophet existential reasons none of which address the core premise of what is stated in those scriptures.
I have not rejected anything.
13 Jul 20
@kingdavid403 saidIf this is a notion you are propagating then the onus is on YOU to provide scripture to support it.
Can you or anyone else here tell me that this person is going to hell because they do not know Jesus yet? Even tho they're diligently seeking God?
Scriptures please?
13 Jul 20
2 edits
@divegeester saidWhy are you dodging the question again?
Oh sorry.... then you agree that agree that a belief in Jesus is necessary for salvation after all?
Not gonna work this time.
Either answer it or not. It's a Yes or No question.
Anyone?
13 Jul 20
@kingdavid403 saidI am addressing your premise in your thread. I’ve done so by giving you a list of scriptures (when you said there were none).
Why are you dodging the question again?
Not gonna work this time.
Either answer it or not. It's a Yes or No question.
Anyone?
If you have an opposing position to present then the onus is on you to present scripture to support it. If you don’t have any then I suppose you don’t really have a supportable opposing position.
13 Jul 20
1 edit
@kingdavid403 saidBased on personal experience, and without saying anything new or controversial [I think], I would define Christians as I did in the OP of this thread: Thread 184586
You got any theory's?
So, more to the point, I would say I think a "Christian" is someone who believes these things apply to them and also believes that these same things apply to ALL people who live in the hope of "salvation".
13 Jul 20
1 edit
Now, again, if someone is truly and diligently seeking God, but they don't know Jesus yet, are they still saved at that time?
This is my question to you and others here; and, no one here has clearly answered this simple question.
I clearly know no one is saved except by Jesus; I'm asking about someone who is truly seeking God but does not know Jesus yet.
Does God's mercy, love, and forgiveness, still cover them and save them?
Can you or anyone else here tell me that this person is going to hell because they do not know Jesus yet? Even tho they're diligently seeking God?
Scriptures please?
Simple really.
Anyone?
13 Jul 20
@kingdavid403 saidSeparately I’d like to again state...
Can you or anyone else here tell me that this person is going to hell because they do not know Jesus yet? Even tho they're diligently seeking God?
There is no such place or thing as hell in my opinion. (if you had been more present in this forum over the years you would have read the dozens of threads on this).
13 Jul 20
1 edit
@kingdavid403 saidThere are no scriptures to support this position, as has been pointed out.
Now, again, if someone is truly and diligently seeking God, but they don't know Jesus yet, are they still saved at that time?
This is my question to you and others here; and, no one here has clearly answered this simple question.
I clearly know no one is saved except by Jesus; I'm asking about someone who is truly seeking God but does not know Jesus yet.
Does God's me ...[text shortened]... now Jesus yet? Even tho they're diligently seeking God?
Scriptures please?
Simple really.
Anyone?
However, we are saved in eternity, we are therefore predestined to be saved. God knows us before we were born. But for us to be certain of our own salvation we have to come to Christ, then WE can “work out our salvation” as the scripture says.
Try not to confuse our eternity state with our temporal one, which I think is what you are doing.
Nevertheless the bottom line is that a belief in Christ is necessary.