20 Oct 12
Originally posted by SuzianneI'm heading out for awhile but will be back to answer your thought. Thanks.
Pardon me, but how many people has the JW org. kicked out of their fold for them asking God similar questions about the JW org.?
I'm not deriding your thread, Gman, just this particular point.
Although I doubt you're going to convince any in here who aren't already convinced. They have their agendas too, and they're not budging, either.
Originally posted by SuzianneMany of us would budge if someone presented scientific evidence for the efficacy of prayer. As it is, all we have is unsubstantiated claims that even if true do not serve as evidence of the efficacy of prayer and if anything make the poster look somewhat desperate.
Although I doubt you're going to convince any in here who aren't already convinced. They have their agendas too, and they're not budging, either.
I mean seriously, he had to go as far a Uruguay to find examples of prayer being answered? Does God not answer his own prayers? Or just not very often?Or does he think we will believe a claim about Uruguay but not his personal experience?
20 Oct 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadThe efficacy of prayer has been the topic of various studies since Francis Galton first addressed it in 1872. Double-blind studies have failed to find any effect. According to the Washington Post, "...prayer is the most common complement to mainstream medicine, far outpacing acupuncture, herbs, vitamins and other alternative remedies." Physician Fred Rosner has expressed doubt that prayer could ever be subject to empirical analysis.
Many of us would budge if someone presented scientific evidence for the efficacy of prayer. As it is, all we have is unsubstantiated claims that even if true do not serve as evidence of the efficacy of prayer and if anything make the poster look somewhat desperate.
I mean seriously, he had to go as far a Uruguay to find examples of prayer being answered? ...[text shortened]... ry often?Or does he think we will believe a claim about Uruguay but not his personal experience?
On the issue of intercessory prayer Christian teachings have emphasized the need for guidance from the Holy Spirit as to what needs to be prayed for and have taught that "God can not be coerced."
The philosophical controversy on this topic even involves the basic issues of statistical inference and falsifiability as to what it may mean to "prove" or "disprove" something, and the problem of demarcation, i.e., as to whether this topic is even within the realm of science at all.
In comparison to other fields that have been scientifically studied, carefully monitored studies of prayer are relatively few. The field remains tiny, with about $5 million spent worldwide on such research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficacy_of_prayer
21 Oct 12
Originally posted by galveston75No I'm very clear in knowing I will not change anyones opinions here. Time has proven that. But there are others that watch these threads and do read them. I have been written by a few that are very interested in what we believe.
I'm heading out for awhile but will be back to answer your thought. Thanks.
And I'm not understanding your question. Sorry but I'm tired.
Originally posted by galveston75I do not say we should not pray. I just don't like the idea of always being selfish when we do pray. We should also pray to worship, praise, and thank God and for help for others in need.
I asked you a question about the need for prayer. Can you please answer it?
When I nearly died of kidney failure, it was uplifting emotionally to hear others, right therei n my hospital room, pray for me to recover and to hear rumors that members of the church had prayed for the doctors and my recovery earlier.
Their belief and prayer even gave me hope that I would get off the dialysis machine, which I did. I am not sure your belief would allow you to be on one of those since it concerns blood. But It kept me alive and allowed time for one of my kidneys to heal and recover with proper medication given. I can't prove prayer helped the doctors or my kidney, but it made me feel better able to cope with the situation.
I believe God does the good works when He wishes to do so. I can not say if prayer has anything to do with His works or not. In my case, prayer made me feel more confident. I doubt if it would have the same effect on an atheist. It might even make him upset.
But many in the Holy Bible prayed, including Jesus, so there must be a need for prayer regardless if I don't know what it is. It did not seem to do anything for Jesus before His crucifixion, for it was still the will of the Father that prevailed. I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
21 Oct 12
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsSorry about your health issues.
I do not say we should not pray. I just don't like the idea of always being selfish when we do pray. We should also pray to worship, praise, and thank God and for help for others in need.
When I nearly died of kidney failure, it was uplifting emotionally to hear others, right therei n my hospital room, pray for me to recover and to hear rumors that memb ss it is all in the eye of the beholder.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
But did you not say this? "I believe prayer is not something that works." What does this mean? Is this not saying prayer does not work?
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21 Oct 12
Originally posted by galveston75It is always good to hear answered prayers. They are inspiring and comforting, so thank you for posting them. I don't know why some prayers seem answered and some not. I know some of the reasons include heartfelt or prayers from the heart, sometimes we are not given the answers to prayers that we think are unanswered, but it may be they are best not answered. Or sometimes they are answered many years later, like a parent praying for their children, then the prayer is answered long after the parent is gone. All I know is God is good, kind, faithful and and hears the prayers of His people.
In Uruguay, a man named Luis was far from happy. Drug addiction, spiritism, idol worship, alcohol abuse—these were some of the things that made his life chaotic. Finally, Luis, completely frustrated, became an atheist. A friend gave him the book Life—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation? This resulted in brief contact with Jehovah’s Witnesse ...[text shortened]... that would actually answer prayers. There are millions of examples of the truth of this fact.
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21 Oct 12
Originally posted by checkbaiterhe's not very kind to the little girl who prays her uncle will stop raping her. oh hang on, i guess eventually she grows up and he looses interest and moves on to a new victim. i suppose thats and example of god answering her prayers later down the line. well done god..........shame about the next victim though, i guess you cant have everything.
It is always good to hear answered prayers. They are inspiring and comforting, so thank you for posting them. I don't know why some prayers seem answered and some not. I know some of the reasons include heartfelt or prayers from the heart, sometimes we are not given the answers to prayers that we think are unanswered, but it may be they are best not answ ...[text shortened]... ent is gone. All I know is God is good, kind, faithful and and hears the prayers of His people.
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21 Oct 12
Originally posted by stellspalfieI would say if he could stop it he would. You are in the dark on your opine. God never promised to be the world's policeman.
he's not very kind to the little girl who prays her uncle will stop raping her. oh hang on, i guess eventually she grows up and he looses interest and moves on to a new victim. i suppose thats and example of god answering her prayers later down the line. well done god..........shame about the next victim though, i guess you cant have everything.
21 Oct 12
Originally posted by checkbaiterAnd all I know is that the rate of positive answers to prayers is indistinguishable statistically from what would be expected if nobody was actually doing any 'answering'. It is also fairly uniform across religions/denominations, so whether your pray to the Christian God, the Muslim God, a Hindu god or some other God makes no difference.
All I know is God is good, kind, faithful and and hears the prayers of His people.
The important thing to note here is that if God is answering some prayers positively, then he is also deliberately messing up your life by giving negative answers to some of your prayers that would otherwise have been 'answered' merely by coincidence. ie he has to unanswer some prayers in order to answer others and maintain the statistics.