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Originally posted by twhiteheadAs I suggested, I do not claim to have all the answers, but the God and Father of Jesus Christ does answer prayer. Satan can also answer audible prayers, but they can only " seem" good at the outset. Without getting into another debate, this can throw a wrench into statistics ...
And all I know is that the rate of positive answers to prayers is indistinguishable statistically from what would be expected if nobody was actually doing any 'answering'. It is also fairly uniform across religions/denominations, so whether your pray to the Christian God, the Muslim God, a Hindu god or some other God makes no difference.
The important ...[text shortened]... e. ie he has to unanswer some prayers in order to answer others and maintain the statistics.
Why Has God Permitted Wickedness?
Where ever you look in the world, there is crime, hatred and trouble. Often it is the innocent who suffer. Some people blame God. They may say: ‘If there is a God, why does he permit all these terrible things to happen?’
Yet who are doing these wicked things to others? It is people, not God. God condemns wicked acts. In fact, much of the suffering on earth would be prevented if people obeyed God’s laws. He commands us to love. He forbids murder, stealing, fornication, greed, drunkenness and other acts of wrongdoing that cause humans to suffer. (Romans 13:9; Ephesians 5:3, 18) God made Adam and Eve with a marvelous brain and body and with the ability to enjoy life to the full. He never wanted them or their children to suffer or have trouble.
It was Satan the Devil who started wickedness on earth. But Adam and Eve were also to blame. They were not so weak that they could not have resisted when the Devil tempted them. They could have told Satan to “go away,” just as the perfect man Jesus later did. (Matthew 4:10) But they did not. As a result, they became imperfect. All their children, including us, have inherited that imperfection, which brought with it sickness, sorrow and death. (Romans 5:12) But why has God permitted suffering to go on?
A person may at first think that there could be no reason great enough for God to allow all the human suffering that has been experienced over the centuries. Yet, is it right to reach that conclusion? Have not parents who truly love their children permitted them to undergo a painful operation to correct some problem? Yes, the permission of temporary suffering has often made it possible for children to enjoy better health later on in life. What good has been done by God’s permission of wickedness?
AN IMPORTANT ISSUE TO BE SETTLED
The rebellion against God in the garden of Eden raised an important issue or question. We need to examine it in order to understand why God has permitted wickedness. Jehovah told Adam not to eat from a certain tree in the garden. If Adam did, what would happen? God said: “You will positively die.” (Genesis 2:17) However, Satan said exactly the opposite. He told Adam’s wife, Eve, to go ahead and eat from the forbidden tree. “You positively will not die,” Satan said. In fact, he went on to tell Eve: “For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad.”—Genesis 3:1-5.
Eve disobeyed God and ate. Why? Eve believed Satan. She selfishly thought that she would benefit by disobeying God. She reasoned that no longer would she or Adam need to answer to God. No longer would they have to submit to his laws. They could decide for themselves what is “good” and what is “bad.” Adam went along with Eve and also ate. Discussing man’s original sin against God, a footnote in The Jerusalem Bible says: “It is the power of deciding for himself what is good and what is evil and of acting accordingly, a claim to complete moral independence . . . The first sin was an attack on God’s sovereignty.” That is, it was an attack on God’s right to be man’s absolute ruler or superior.
So by eating the forbidden fruit, Adam and Eve withdrew themselves from under God’s rulership. They went out on their own, doing what was “good” or “bad” according to their own decisions. So the important issue or question raised was: Does God have the right to be the absolute ruler of humankind? In other words, is Jehovah the One to decide what is good or bad for humans? Is he the One to say what is right conduct and what is not? Or can man do a better job of governing himself? Whose way of ruling is best? Can humans, under the invisible direction of Satan, rule successfully without Jehovah’s direction? Or is God’s guidance needed in order to set up a righteous government that will bring lasting peace to the earth? All such questions were raised in this attack on God’s sovereignty, on his right to be the only and absolute ruler of humankind.
Of course, as soon as the rebellion happened Jehovah could have destroyed the three rebels. There was no question that he was stronger than Satan or Adam and Eve. But destroying them would not have settled matters in the best way. For example, it would not have answered the question of whether humans could successfully rule themselves without help from God. So Jehovah allowed time to settle the important issue that was raised.
SETTLING THE ISSUE
Now that time has passed, what has been the result? Well, what would you say? Have the past 6,000 years of history shown that humans have been successful in governing themselves without God’s guidance? Have humans provided good government for the blessing and happiness of all? Or has the record of history shown that the prophet Jeremiah’s words are correct: “It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step”?—Jeremiah 10:23.
Throughout history all kinds of governments have been tried, but none have brought security and real happiness to all those living under their rule. Some persons may point to the signs of progress. But can a person speak of true progress when the bow and arrow have been replaced by the atomic bomb, and when the world now is in great fear of another world war? What kind of progress is it when men can walk on the moon but cannot live together in peace on the earth? What good is it for men to build homes equipped with all kinds of modern conveniences when the families who live in them are torn apart by troubles? Are riots in the streets, the destruction of property and life and the widespread lawlessness things of which to be proud? Not at all! But these are the results of humans trying to rule themselves apart from God.—Proverbs 19:3.
The evidence should be clear to all. Man’s efforts to govern himself independently of God have been a terrible failure. They have resulted in great human suffering. “Man has dominated man to his injury,” the Bible explains. (Ecclesiastes 8:9) Clearly, humans need God’s guidance in governing their affairs. Just as God created man with the need to eat food and drink water, so man was made with the need to obey God’s laws. If man ignores God’s laws, he will come into difficulty, just as surely as he would suffer if he ignored his body’s need for food and water.—Proverbs 3:5, 6.
SO LONG?
However, a person might ask, ‘Why has God permitted so much time, about 6,000 years now, to settle this issue? Could it not have been settled in a satisfactory way long ago?’ Not really. If God had stepped in long ago, the charge could have been made that humans were not given enough time to experiment. But as it is, humans have had plenty of time to develop a government that would satisfy the needs of all its subjects, as well as make scientific discoveries that could contribute to the prosperity of all. Over the centuries humans have tried nearly every form of government. And their progress in the field of science has been remarkable. They have harnessed the atom and traveled to the moon. But what has been the result? Has it brought a grand new system for the blessing of humankind?
Far from it! Instead, there is more unhappiness and trouble on earth than ever before. In fact, crime, pollution, war, family breakdown and other problems have reached such a dangerous stage that scientists believe man’s very existence is threatened. Yes, after about 6,000 years of experience in self-rule, and after reaching a peak in scientific “progress,” humankind is now facing self-destruction! How clear it is that humans cannot successfully govern themselves apart from God! Nor can anyone now complain that God did not allow enough time to settle this issue.
PE book Ch 11 pages 99-104
Originally posted by galveston75What is"PE"?
Why Has God Permitted Wickedness?
Where ever you look in the world, there is crime, hatred and trouble. Often it is the innocent who suffer. Some people blame God. They may say: ‘If there is a God, why does he permit all these terrible things to happen?’
Yet who are doing these wicked things to others? It is people, not God. God condemns wicked a ...[text shortened]... w complain that God did not allow enough time to settle this issue.
PE book Ch 11 pages 99-104
Originally posted by galveston75I don't view prayer like a magic chant that produces results. I see it as trying to communicate with God. I don't know if God hears every prayer or not. I don't see prayer as a way to make God do something. So in that respect it does not work. If we use prayer to ask God for something, even if He hears it, I don't thank it works to produce what you want. I believe God does what He wants and if your request fits into that plan, He does it, and if not, He doesn't. I believe you can pray as much as you want and it is not going to work against the will of God. So I say again, I believe prayer does not work. God does the works, not the prayer.
Sorry about your health issues.
But did you not say this? "I believe prayer is not something that works." What does this mean? Is this not saying prayer does not work?
Originally posted by checkbaiterSo praying is only inviting trouble from Satan. Yes, you clearly don't have all the answers.
As I suggested, I do not claim to have all the answers, but the God and Father of Jesus Christ does answer prayer. Satan can also answer audible prayers, but they can only " seem" good at the outset. Without getting into another debate, this can throw a wrench into statistics ...
Originally posted by RJHindsWow. What a weak view and explination. It must be because he doesn't listen to your prayers that you have such a bleak view on this? Perhaps you faith is very weak?
I don't view prayer like a magic chant that produces results. I see it as trying to communicate with God. I don't know if God hears every prayer or not. I don't see prayer as a way to make God do something. So in that respect it does not work. If we use prayer to ask God for something, even if He hears it, I don't thank it works to produce what you wan ...[text shortened]... God. So I say again, I believe prayer does not work. God does the works, not the prayer.
But he cleary does listen to prayers:
"Hearer of prayers In the heavens before coming to earth, Jesus observed firsthand that Jehovah is the “Hearer of prayer” and that He delights in the prayers of his faithful worshippers. (Psalm 65:2) Hence, during his ministry, Jesus taught his listeners how to pray and what to pray for. “Do not say the same things over and over again,” he counseled. He urged his listeners to pray for God’s will to “take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.” We may also pray for daily sustenance, to be forgiven for our sins, and to resist temptation. (Matthew 6:5-13) Jesus taught that Jehovah responds in a fatherly way to the prayers of His servants, answering their sincere requests made in faith.—Matthew 7:7-11."
"The entire Scriptural record testifies that Jehovah is the One to whom prayer should be directed (Ps 5:1, 2; Mt 6:9), that he is the “Hearer of prayer” (Ps 65:2; 66:19) and has power to act in behalf of the petitioners. (Mr 11:24; Eph 3:20) To pray to false gods and their idol images is exposed as stupidity, for the idols do not have the ability either to hear or to act, and the gods they represent are unworthy of comparison with the true God. (Jg 10:11-16; Ps 115:4, 6; Isa 45:20; 46:1, 2, 6, 7) The contest concerning godship between Baal and Jehovah, held on Mount Carmel, demonstrated the foolishness of prayer to false deities.—1Ki 18:21-39; compare Jg 6:28-32."
"People “of all flesh” may come to the “Hearer of prayer,” Jehovah God. (Ps 65:2; Ac 15:17) Even during the period that Israel was God’s “private property,” his covenant people, foreigners could approach Jehovah in prayer by recognizing Israel as God’s appointed instrument and the temple at Jerusalem as his chosen place for sacrifice."
Perhaps it is through the privilege of prayer that we experience Jehovah’s love in the most intimate way. The Bible invites each of us to “pray incessantly” to God. (1 Thessalonians 5:17) He listens. He is even called the “Hearer of prayer.” (Psalm 65:2) He has not delegated this office to anyone else, not even to his own Son. Just think: The Creator of the universe urges us to approach him in prayer, with freeness of speech. And what kind of listener is he? Cold, impassive, uncaring? Not at all."
Originally posted by galveston75You claimed you have had prayers answered. You must have some idea of the ratio between success and failure, surely?
Give me a minute to look that up. I have that written down somewhere here....... Lol.
For every 1,000 of your prayers that were seeking to be "answered", would you say there are hundreds that "work"? Dozens? Less than ten?
Originally posted by FMFDo you want the full moon results or just the everyday varity?
You claimed you have had prayers answered. You must have some idea of the ratio between success and failure, surely?
For every 1,000 of your prayers that were seeking to be "answered", would you say there are hundreds that "work"? Dozens? Less than ten?