@kellyjay saidWas Jesus not quite clear here? This is judgment day
Jesus is quite clear in John 8 He says
He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,
Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
naked, and ye clothed me not:
sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(Matthew 25:41-43 KJV)
The ones who die in their sins are the ones who ignored him
when he was hungry, thirsty, sick, naked.
You are a stupid man KellyJay. You are blind to what Jesus is saying.
You are only promoting your foolish church doctrine of mouth worship.
Jesus is saying HE IS ALL AROUND YOU.
IF YOU IGNORE HIM YOU WILL DIE
09 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidYes with some they died in their sins judged for what they did and didn’t do, others died in their sin because as Jesus say says He did not know them.
Was Jesus not quite clear here? This is judgment day
[i]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,
Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
naked, and ye clothed me not:
sick, and in p ...[text shortened]... of mouth worship.
Jesus is saying HE IS ALL AROUND YOU.
IF YOU IGNORE HIM YOU WILL DIE
No one disputes we are to obey and do good works, only that it’s through God’s grace through faith we are saved from the wrath to come.
@moonbus saidHe kind of twisted what I said to make it sound really bad, but he got that out of our discussions on previous threads.
I am beginning to wonder whether anyone actually professes those bullet points, or whether this thread is a red herring.
He ignores some of the important points I made
- Jesus died for the sins of all the world and is atoning for all sins
- Christians are in a privileged position if they have both faith and works and will be the first to enter life eternal
- in the end all people [because Jesus died for them too] will have an opportunity to enter the kingdom of God simply by their good works and righteousness.
What typical Christians want is
- an assurance of eternal life even if they live the most evil lifestyle
- they must be forgiven of all sins
- no non Christian must enter the Kingdom of God and must burn in hell for eternity
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@rajk999 said<<What typical Christians want is
He kind of twisted what I said to make it sound really bad, but he got that out of our discussions on previous threads.
He ignores some of the important points I made
- Jesus died for the sins of all the world and is atoning for all sins
- Christians are in a privileged position if they have both faith and works and will be the first to enter life eternal
- in the end a ...[text shortened]... ven of all sins
- no non Christian must enter the Kingdom of God and must burn in hell for eternity
- an assurance of eternal life even if they live the most evil lifestyle>>
No Christian - that is, no person who is truly saved - lives “the most evil lifestyle.” Do they still occasionally sin and make mistakes? Yes. But do they live a life of sin and “the most evil lifestyle?” No. That’s your hateful fantasy of Christians.
<<- they must be forgiven of all sins >>
God forgives us of all sins. It’s not a demand we make of God. It’s a gift He provides and a gift Christians are grateful for.
<<- no non Christian must enter the Kingdom of God>>
Again, God sets the rules and how God has determined a person becomes saved and one of His children is very clear.
Read John 3:16, Romans 10:9, John 6:40, Acts 16:30-31.
<<and must burn in hell for eternity>>
No Christian wants anyone to burn in hell for eternity. The fact you think they do shows how much hatred you have inside of you and how much you hate Christians.
I’ll get to the rest of your nonsense later.
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@rajk999 said<<He ignores some of the important points I made>>
He kind of twisted what I said to make it sound really bad, but he got that out of our discussions on previous threads.
He ignores some of the important points I made
- Jesus died for the sins of all the world and is atoning for all sins
- Christians are in a privileged position if they have both faith and works and will be the first to enter life eternal
- in the end a ...[text shortened]... ven of all sins
- no non Christian must enter the Kingdom of God and must burn in hell for eternity
You revise your false doctrine so often, it’s hard to keep track of the latest revisions.
<<- Jesus died for the sins of all the world>>
Correct.
<<and is atoning for all sins>>
One has to accept God’s gift of salvation through Jesus Christ. If you don’t accept it, you don’t get it.
<<- Christians are in a privileged position if they have both faith and works and will be the first to enter life eternal >>
Where in the Holy Bible do you find this? Or did you make it up to patch a hole in your false doctrine?
<<- in the end all people [because Jesus died for them too] will have an opportunity to enter the kingdom of God simply by their good works and righteousness.>>
Jesus died for all. But you have to accept God’s gift of salvation through Jesus Christ. If you don’t, your sins are not forgiven and you’re not righteous (in right standing) with God.
No one gets into Heaven based on good works.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
(Ephesians 2:8-9)
10 Dec 21
@kevin-eleven saidSplendid. I’ve got a case of beer and some hotdogs.
I could bring four cans of tuna but unfortunately only two slices of pumpernickel -- the ratio is wrong. I do have mayo and mustard, though.
Since the Christians have gone back to bashing each other over who has the correct interpretation, the infidels might as well eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we may have COVID.
10 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidThanks for the clarification. I don't follow every thread at the SF, only sporadically. I would not presume to adjudicate on which interpretation of Christianity is the correct one. I believe there isn't one; the father's house has many mansions. The multiplicity of interpretations is what allowed Christianity to survive and flourish. If one interpretation had ever triumphed over all others, the religion would have appealed to too few people and would have died out, along with Gnosticism and Manichaeism and untold other cults, long ago.
He kind of twisted what I said to make it sound really bad, but he got that out of our discussions on previous threads.
10 Dec 21
@moonbus saidI understand. For me the correct version of Christianity is the one preached by Jesus Christ. There is no other. The basic core teaching of Jesus is good works and righteousness which all the Apostles and disciples preached as well. The Apostles particularly Paul preached other things but those doctrines cannot be part of the core Gospel of Christ
Thanks for the clarification. I don't follow every thread at the SF, only sporadically. I would not presume to adjudicate on which interpretation of Christianity is the correct one. I believe there isn't one; the father's house has many mansions. The multiplicity of interpretations is what allowed Christianity to survive and flourish. If one interpretation had ever triumphed ...[text shortened]... ple and would have died out, along with Gnosticism and Manichaeism and untold other cults, long ago.
Yes indeed to the many mansions comment by Christ and also what about the 'other sheep' that He has. What about the wise men from the east who came to witness his birth. Clearly they knew more than the Jews who were clueless about these events. If the other writings of the Jews has any credibility then Jesus was preaching straight from his mothers womb. He preached to the Jews from ages 1 to 12 and from 30 to 33 or thereabouts. That 18 yr period was also spent preaching but nobody is sure where. There is a good chance that he travelled the world and preached as well. And his doctrine would have been the same - righteousness and good works = eternal life.
The Jews dont own Christ, neither do Christians. Jesus came to save mankind from their sins and the purpose is to get as many as possible into the Kingdom of God. Christians are just a drop in the bucket.
The bible also states that Jesus went to preach to those who died in the flood so that they too can be saved. So there are many many people from all eras from all religions from all cultures and races and nations who will be in the Kingdom of God just purely on the basis of good works.
Christians however who are righteous will still remain the chosen by Christ to rule with Him in the millennial reign.
10 Dec 21
@pb1022 saidSo you are calling out a specific poster for this?
I put bullet points of this false gospel in the OP.
This is not, as you say, a gospel, a teaching, a tenet of a church?
That's what I was getting at.
Most here who claim false gospels call out the progenitor of that "gospel". Many who have been called out here include the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Latter-Day Saints, even the Roman Catholics.
Who proselytizes this "false gospel"? That is what I'm trying to get at.
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10 Dec 21
@suzianne saidI deliberately didn’t identify the poster so as not to make this personal. The poster in question (who espouses this false gospel) has no problem spewing hate and I’d rather not encourage him in that endeavor. Also, I don’t think his identity is relevant.
So you are calling out a specific poster for this?
This is not, as you say, a gospel, a teaching, a tenet of a church?
That's what I was getting at.
Most here who claim false gospels call out the progenitor of that "gospel". Many who have been called out here include the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Latter-Day Saints, even the Roman Catholics.
Who proselytizes this "false gospel"? That is what I'm trying to get at.
That said, he essentially acknowledges who he is on this page. And I find it hard to believe based on how long you’ve been on this site and your activity in the SF that you don’t know who espouses this false gospel.
His nickname at one point in this forum was “amigo.”
@rajk999 saidThat 18 yr period was also spent preaching but nobody is sure where. There is a good chance that he travelled the world and preached as well.
I understand. For me the correct version of Christianity is the one preached by Jesus Christ. There is no other. The basic core teaching of Jesus is good works and righteousness which all the Apostles and disciples preached as well. The Apostles particularly Paul preached other things but those doctrines cannot be part of the core Gospel of Christ
Yes indeed to the many m ...[text shortened]... r who are righteous will still remain the chosen by Christ to rule with Him in the millennial reign.
We can infer where he was and what he was doing. He was pursuing a pagan mystical path. The reference to it is as plain as the nose on his face, though modern Christians misinterpret it. He walked on water. Modern Christians misinterpret this as some sort of miracle of levitation. No such thing occurred. Walking on water was the seventh and final initiation ritual into the pagan mysteries. No miracle implied; hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people walked on water. It means Jesus had undergone a thorough training in pagan mystery religions. The reason this was mentioned in the NT was to convince gentile listeners, Greeks and Romans, that Jesus was a holy man in terms they would have immediately understood. Otherwise, gentiles would have had no reason to lend any credibility to the leader of a schismatical Jewish sect.
11 Dec 21
@moonbus saidThe idea that Jesus came to be taught about the affairs of men whether it be spiritual or otherwise is really not within the ballpark of possibilities, for me anyhow. Jesus came to teach and he arrived prepared and hit the ground running.
That 18 yr period was also spent preaching but nobody is sure where. There is a good chance that he travelled the world and preached as well.
We can infer where he was and what he was doing. He was pursuing a pagan mystical path. The reference to it is as plain as the nose on his face, though modern Christians misinterpret it. He walked on water. Modern Christians ...[text shortened]... ntiles would have had no reason to lend any credibility to the leader of a schismatical Jewish sect.
I certainly believe that he went to the east and there is a lot of evidence that one or more disciples were sent there... but to go to learn? I dont think so.
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20 Dec 21
Handwriting Leviticus 17 today and happened upon this interesting verse:
“For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.”
(Leviticus 17:11)