Eternal punishment

Originally posted by daniel58
the punishment of hell is just.

Do you think that as a young child you were influenced by fear of hell?

Originally posted by joe beyser
Do you think that as a young child you were influenced by fear of hell?

Possibly, I can't really remember, I know at certain points I was, that doesn't really count though because I grew up as a Catholic, so you try to get to Heaven anyways.

Originally posted by daniel58
Possibly, I can't really remember, I know at certain points I was, that doesn't really count though because I grew up as a Catholic, so you try to get to Heaven anyways.

Thank you for the answer. It is hard to get good feedback like that here. I do remember the fear as a child but circustances stopped my continued church attendance. I wonder if it would have led me to further beliefs had we not moved. I was about 5 years old at the time.

Originally posted by joe beyser
Thank you for the answer. It is hard to get good feedback like that here. I do remember the fear as a child but circustances stopped my continued church attendance. I wonder if it would have led me to further beliefs had we not moved. I was about 5 years old at the time.

It's no problem I like to post on here and help people if I can, so your parents stopped going to church after you moved? So what do you consider yourself now?

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are perpetuating the stupidiy and the brainwashing. I pity your poor children. Your parents were stupid. You are stupid and you are passing on your stupidity to them. I hope they are smart enough to tell you to take a hike.

Eternal punishment means that the death is permanent and eternal, and there is no more resurrection for that person.

Eternal p ...[text shortened]... oes not include all people who do not accept Christ.

The wages of sin is death not suffering.

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Eternal punishment is NOT Eternal suffering.
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You can't back that up either. And I think we have been through this before.

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Eternal suffering is reserved for the devil and his angels. That does not include all people who do not accept Christ.
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That is a lie. The Devil and the false prophet and the antichrist go to it. That is one angelic being and two humans.

What I had written was the those whose names were not written in the Lamb's book of life were thrown into the lake of fire in Revelation 20.


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The wages of sin is death not suffering.
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The wages of not having one's name written in the book of life is suffering eternal punishment in the lake of fire.

You are ignorant of the Bible. And we have seen you parade your ignorance around before.

"And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimestone, where also the beast and the false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Rev. 20:21)


1.) The beast and the false prophet were cast into this terrible place 1000 years earlier (Rev. 19:20).

2.) When the Devil is cast in with them, the beast and the false prophet are not burnt up even after 1,000 years. They are still there being tormented.

3.) The passage says "THEY will be tormented". All three are there as a collective "THEY". And there is not the slightest hint at their being annihilated. Rather it says that "they will be tormented ...". Non-existence is not a torment.

4.) It says that they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

All of your twisting cannot confuse the matter. So you are the one that needs to be pitied.

5.) The Devil is there with two human beings as a collective "THEY" So it is not only the Devil being tormented.

6.) The phrase forever and ever also applies to the reign of God in eternity. So if the torment is temporary than so also is the reign of God (Rev. 11:15).

" ... our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever." (Rev. 11:14)

" ... and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Rev. 20:10)

7.) If you want to assume that the result would be different for all those who are thrown into the lake of fire, you have nothing but wishful thinking to base it on.

"And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."

I see nothing to indicate that their "hurt" should be any different.

8.) The lake of fire "hurts". So it cannot be something happening to the unconscious and non-existent because of annihilation:

"He who overcomes shall by no means be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11)

The "second death" is "the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:14) -

"This is the second death, the lake of fire."


So you have absolutely no case.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]==============================
Eternal punishment is NOT Eternal suffering.
===================================

You can't back that up either. And I think we have been through this before.

===========================
Eternal suffering is reserved for the devil and his angels. That does not include all people who do not accept Christ. ...[text shortened]... th, the lake of fire."


So you have absolutely no case.[/b]

Explain in detail why you changed :

The wages of sin is death

TO :

The wages of not having one's name written in the book of life is suffering eternal punishment in the lake of fire.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]==============================
Eternal punishment is NOT Eternal suffering.
===================================

You can't back that up either. And I think we have been through this before.

===========================
Eternal suffering is reserved for the devil and his angels. That does not include all people who do not accept Christ. ...[text shortened]... th, the lake of fire."


So you have absolutely no case.[/b]

There were many people throughout the ages who never heard of the God of Israel or Christ. According to you they will also burn in hell and suffer for all eternity. How do you justify that?

Originally posted by Rajk999
There were many people throughout the ages who never heard of the God of Israel or Christ. According to you they will also burn in hell and suffer for all eternity. How do you justify that?

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There were many people throughout the ages who never heard of the God of Israel or Christ. According to you they will also burn in hell and suffer for all eternity. How do you justify that?
=====================================

You refute first my 8 points.

If you can do it, then do it. If you cannot then admit that you cannot.

Then I will proceed to address your other question.

First things first. We will see who the STUPID one is.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]====================================
There were many people throughout the ages who never heard of the God of Israel or Christ. According to you they will also burn in hell and suffer for all eternity. How do you justify that?
=====================================

You refute first my 8 points.

If you can do it, then do it. If you cann ...[text shortened]... eed to address your other question.

First things first. We will see who the STUPID one is.[/b]

Your 8 points are rubbish.
The wages of sin is death. In your scenario death never comes.
You are trying to contradict clear Bible teaching
Im pretty sure that qualifies you as stupid.

Originally posted by jaywill


You refute first my 8 points.

If you can do it, then do it. If you cannot then admit that you cannot.

Then I will proceed to address your other question.

First things first. We will see who the STUPID one is.

Pharisee.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Your 8 points are rubbish.
The wages of sin is death. In your scenario death never comes.
You are trying to contradict clear Bible teaching
Im pretty sure that qualifies you as stupid.

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Your 8 points are rubbish.
The wages of sin is death. In your scenario death never comes.
You are trying to contradict clear Bible teaching
Im pretty sure that qualifies you as stupid.
================================

That's pitiful. If that is your only reply, that is really stupid.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Pharisee.

Here's Dr Scribbles with his few.

The New Testament says that God has given us a spirit of a "sound mind." In the argots of the street, "not stupid". That soundness is not demonstrated by Rajk999's ad homs and very weak attacks of solid exegesis.

And as for you "Brothaaa!!" anyone who intentionally flaunts his illiteracy or prefers to spell incorrectly is as hypocritical as any Pharisee.

Its worst than hypocrisy. You didn't learn than in "THA BROTHA HOOD" I got my education from, being Afro American myself.

Originally posted by jaywill

The New Testament says that God has given us a spirit of a [b]"sound mind." In the argots of the street, "not stupid". That soundness is not demonstrated by Rajk999's ad homs and very weak attacks of solid exegesis.[/b]

Is it your position that Rajk thus serves as a counterexample to the Bible's claim, demonstrating that it is false?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Your 8 points are rubbish.
The wages of sin is death. In your scenario death never comes.
You are trying to contradict clear Bible teaching
Im pretty sure that qualifies you as stupid.

What happened to Moses and Elijah?

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]========================
Your 8 points are rubbish.
The wages of sin is death. In your scenario death never comes.
You are trying to contradict clear Bible teaching
Im pretty sure that qualifies you as stupid.
================================

That's pitiful. If that is your only reply, that is really stupid.[/b]

You are clearly impressed by longwinded explanations.
The facts are :

Paul said the wages of sin is death.
Christ said his judgment is JUST.

How is placing a serial rapist/killer alongside with an innocent person who never heard of Christ, a lake of fire JUST? You dont have a clue what JUST means. You simply regurgigate the doctrines your elders teach you.

Furthermore all your quotes are from Revelation which is almost all figurative. NOBODY can claim to fully understand that book. Its a mystery and any 'understanding' are just guesses.

Ops .. I forgot you are the once-saved-always-saved guy. The madman that killed 3 people in the LA gym recently is a product of your doctrine.

So .. accept Christ and you can kill and still get salvation. If you are a good person but know nothing about Christ ... its eternal suffering. And I am the stupid one .... 😀