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07 Aug 09
Originally posted by jaywillThe same thing my ancestors have offered me. An example of generosity, decency, kindness, sense of humour, hospitality, fairness, honesty, good work ethic, strength of body and mind, intelligence, and the opportunity to exist here in Midgard.
So when you spoke of ancestors and gods you meant Norse gods.
You too will be one of the ancestors to some future person who says they are here because of ancestors and Norse gods?
What will you offer them?
Need I say more?
07 Aug 09
Originally posted by jaywillYou are perpetuating the stupidiy and the brainwashing. I pity your poor children. Your parents were stupid. You are stupid and you are passing on your stupidity to them. I hope they are smart enough to tell you to take a hike.
I am thankful that I received a realistic teaching about eternal punishment as a young child.
I am thankful for any and all truths from the Bible which were faithfully related to me.
At an appropriate time I would also read those portions of the Bible to any child of my own.
As I would teach a child it is well to fear the consequences of steali ...[text shortened]... ent by Jesus Christ to tell people about salvation. Of course that must include my own children.
Eternal punishment means that the death is permanent and eternal, and there is no more resurrection for that person.
Eternal punishment is NOT Eternal suffering.
Eternal suffering is reserved for the devil and his angels. That does not include all people who do not accept Christ.
The wages of sin is death not suffering.
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07 Aug 09
2 edits
Originally posted by jaywillI'll also comment, because you may be wondering, that I have two teenage daughters and they have both been raised Catholic. Now why would a heathen like me raise my daughters Catholic you might wonder? Because when they were born I agreed with their mother that it would be so and doing what one says they are going to do and fulfilling a committment is a virtue I hold dear. I have done nothing to discourage them from following this path and have driven them to church many times. I only ask that they view things as objectively as possible with a skeptical eye.
So when you spoke of ancestors and gods you meant Norse gods.
You too will be one of the ancestors to some future person who says they are here because of ancestors and Norse gods?
What will you offer them?
Should they ever decide in the future to take an interest in my religion I would discourage them because my chosen path is one of personal responsibility where there is no forgiveness for what's been done and in general we don't evangelize and seek converts. We live with the consequences of our actions for better or worse both in the here and now and in the afterlife. There is no absolution nor promise of salvation. There is only our deeds and our reputation is both earned and carries with us beyond our mortal life.
07 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999That isn't what is being taught to everyone. But those exposed to punishment being eternal torture when they are young and impressive may have a lot of subconscious bias in decisions they make or have made and has shaped them. If a person grows up thinking God advocates torture then what is wrong with torture? Mainly though I wonder if this idea is implanted early enough on if it has an effect on peoples decision to be christian even if hell fire is a false teaching.
You are perpetuating the stupidiy and the brainwashing. I pity your poor children. Your parents were stupid. You are stupid and you are passing on your stupidity to them. I hope they are smart enough to tell you to take a hike.
Eternal punishment means that the death is permanent and eternal, and there is no more resurrection for that person.
Eternal p ...[text shortened]... oes not include all people who do not accept Christ.
The wages of sin is death not suffering.
07 Aug 09
2 edits
Originally posted by Ullr============================
I'll also comment, because you may be wondering, that I have two teenage daughters and they have both been raised Catholic. Now why would a heathen like me raise my daughters Catholic you might wonder? Because when they were born I agreed with their mother that it would be so and doing what one says they are going to do and fulfilling a committment is a virtu s only our deeds and our reputation is both earned and carries with us beyond our mortal life.
I'll also comment, because you may be wondering, that I have two teenage daughters and they have both been raised Catholic. Now why would a heathen like me raise my daughters Catholic you might wonder? Because when they were born I agreed with their mother that it would be so and doing what one says they are going to do and fulfilling a committment is a virtue I hold dear. I have done nothing to discourage them from following this path and have driven them to church many times. I only ask that they view things as objectively as possible with a skeptical eye.
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That is good of you to drive them to their meetings and that you do not oppose their being exposed to the faith of Christians.
I hope you would also encourage them to read the Bible for themselves. They will be better equiped to make good judgments if they are aware of what is actually in that book.
Catholics are notorious for just taking what the priest says. I can understand a man in your position would advise them to be objective and skeptical. I hope you would also advise them that they should read the Bible and master for themselves the things written therein.
I wish you would also encourage them to always read the Bible for themselves and not simply take what someone says is in there. How do they know unless they read it for themselves?
To bring children up is too awesome a responsibility. My two are in their upper twenties now. They will make there own choices. You can be sure of that.
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07 Aug 09
Originally posted by jaywill
I wish you would also encourage them to always read the Bible for themselves and not simply take what someone says is in there. How do they know unless they read it for themselves?
I certainly do encourage them to do that. But again with a healthy dose of skepticism.
07 Aug 09
Originally posted by joe beyserWell the average joe public is a lazy moron. Most people can read. So if they think that idea of eternal suffering sounds a little off, then its up to them to do some research and they will find that the Bible actually does not teach that or at least makes that doctrine appear shaky.
That isn't what is being taught to everyone. But those exposed to punishment being eternal torture when they are young and impressive may have a lot of subconscious bias in decisions they make or have made and has shaped them. If a person grows up thinking God advocates torture then what is wrong with torture? Mainly though I wonder if this idea is implan ...[text shortened]... if it has an effect on peoples decision to be christian even if hell fire is a false teaching.
The problem is that most people are too lazy to pick up the Bible and read it... so if they live in fear, then thats their own fault .. tough.
Modern Christianity is gulty of gradually inserting a few basic false doctrines into their teachings.
- that all you need to do is to accept Christ as your saviour and thereafter you are saved and can never lose your salvation.
- eternal suffering if you dont accept Christ
- greater contributions to the church = greater blessings and salvation
All are unbiblical are designed to a encourage greater attendance/money.
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07 Aug 09
Originally posted by jaywillQuoting got screwed up so reposting my response:
[b]============================
I'll also comment, because you may be wondering, that I have two teenage daughters and they have both been raised Catholic. Now why would a heathen like me raise my daughters Catholic you might wonder? Because when they were born I agreed with their mother that it would be so and doing what one says they are going to do ...[text shortened]... in their upper twenties now. They [b]will make there own choices. You can be sure of that.[/b]
Yes I agree. I do encourage them to read the bible for themselves. Again with a healthy dose of skepticism and the understanding that what they are reading is also the mythology and legends of a certain group of people at a certain time in history.
I make sure they are aware that just because it says so in the Bible does not mean that contradicting science is invalid. Yet on the other side of the coin that just because our knowledge of the universe is ever expanding and changing does not mean there is no place for their religion. The two can coexist but just as our scientific knowledge changes so can our religous beliefs. We don't need to be stubborn or ignorant for fear of our faith being invalidated because there is much that none of us yet knows.
07 Aug 09
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesThat is a good question. That is part of what makes no sense to me. Even if there is no hell fire, why would some be condemed to death permanently for not going along with a religion or a book written by men?
Are there people so evil that they deserve more than eternal punishment? Or is eternal punishment precisely the optimally just consequence for the full spectrum of sin, no matter how minor or egregious?