13 Jun 14
Originally posted by FMFWhat tiny piece of evidence can you produce that validates your assertions? Are we to believe you when you say living for eternity is fantasy just because you say so?
"Living for an eternity" ~ a state/fate for which there has been not even one tiny piece evidence since the dawn of man ~ is the realm of superstition, fantasy-imagination and religiosity. In your case, what could possibly be the point of asking someone who does not share your religious beliefs to imagine having no choice but to share your religious beliefs, other than to promote your religious agenda?
You believe there is no evidence for eternal life, yet you claim as evidence no evidence as evidence that there is no eternal life!
You want to have your cake and eat it too! What? Is the existence of all creation evidence for nothing? Talk about fantasy!
13 Jun 14
Originally posted by josephwOk I give in.
What tiny piece of evidence can you produce that validates your assertions? Are we to believe you when you say living for eternity is fantasy just because you say so?
You believe there is no evidence for eternal life, yet you claim as evidence no evidence as evidence that there is no eternal life!
You want to have your cake and eat it too! What? Is the existence of all creation evidence for nothing? Talk about fantasy!
I've been beaten down with a club of logic by an intellectual giant.
I see it clearly now.
I cannot prove that we do not live forever.
Therefore we do.
I get it.
13 Jun 14
Originally posted by FMFWell, I really don't see the point. 'Creating truth' sounds a lot like relativism and self actualization.
wolfgang59 said "It would be lovely if we could create truth just by discussing it." I found this to be wry, especially as posters who spam up threads with copy pastes are quite often averse to genuine "discussion" about the "truths" [or lack of] to be found in those wall-o-texts.
But I guess that's what distinguishes us from each other! I see and hear the creator in all that exists. You don't. I think it's because you fail to fully comprehend truth as pre-existing and objectively independent of your own existence. No insult implied.
13 Jun 14
Originally posted by josephwThere are billions upon billions upon billions of instances of incontrovertible evidence that we die while you do not have a single piece of evidence of any instance of there being a continuation of life after a death. These are two assertions of mine that I am sure you cannot rebut.
What tiny piece of evidence can you produce that validates your assertions? Are we to believe you when you say living for eternity is fantasy just because you say so?
You believe there is no evidence for eternal life, yet you claim as evidence no evidence as evidence that there is no eternal life!
You want to have your cake and eat it too! What? Is the existence of all creation evidence for nothing? Talk about fantasy!
13 Jun 14
Originally posted by josephwAnd so... your beliefs and perspectives are "[truths] pre-existing and objectively independent of your own existence"? Is that your 'debating point' here?
...you fail to fully comprehend truth as pre-existing and objectively independent of your own existence..
13 Jun 14
Originally posted by wolfgang59"I cannot prove that we do not live forever."
Ok I give in.
I've been beaten down with a club of logic by an intellectual giant.
I see it clearly now.
I cannot prove that we do not live forever.
Therefore we do.
I get it.
Give me a break will ya? Of course you can't prove it! Citing 'no evidence' as evidence for the existence or non-existence of anything is purely irrational.
All that exists is the evidence for and of itself. That the universe exists is proof for something. Not proof for nothing.
Originally posted by stellspalfieIf Bobby only had 100 books and nothing else in his cell, he would run out of things to do instantaneously, because what good would books do him if he didn't have any means to copy and paste from them? At least give the man scissors and glue so he can go old school. Your scenario sounds like Bobby's version of Hell.
imagine i locked you in cell with 100 books, nothing else........how long would it be before you would run out of things to do? what would you do then?
13 Jun 14
Originally posted by josephwAny evidence you have that each human identity lives or exists for "eternity" is welcome. We can discuss it.
How open minded are you?
Can you possibly think that your mindset is incomplete to the degree that the truth eludes you? (I'm referring to The Truth.) That there is an eternal being that made you and all that exists?
Good night!
13 Jun 14
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby"Eternity" [First published Fri Jan 20, 2006; substantive revision Thu Feb 4, 2010]
"Eternity" [First published Fri Jan 20, 2006; substantive revision Thu Feb 4, 2010]
4. Sources in antiquity
"As noted, Boethius found the source of the idea of eternity which he attributes to God in Plato. In the Timaeus (37E6–38A6) Plato contrasts the eternal forms with the time-bound created world, the world of mutation and bec ...[text shortened]... luding that being's timelessness."[/i] http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/eternity/ (to be continued)
6. Medieval thinkers
"It is in the medieval period that discussion of eternity embraces not only Christian but Jewish and Islamic thinkers, often in controversy among themselves. In keeping with the sharp line drawn between the Creator and all that is created, medieval thinkers such as Thomas and the Jewish thinker Moses Maimonides (1131–1204) (who greatly influenced Aquinas) thought that God's timeless eternity ought to be understood primarily in negative terms. For Aquinas God's eternity is unending, lacking both beginning and end, and an instantaneous whole lacking successiveness). It is a correlate of divine simplicity, and so incapable of being defined or fully grasped by a creature. Part of what it means to say that God is incomprehensible is to say that though we believe that God is timeless we do not and cannot have a straightforward understanding of what his timeless life is, of what it is like to be timeless. For Aquinas also timeless eternity constituted part of the ‘grammar’ of talking about God. Since God is eternal it does not make any sense to ask how many years God has existed, or whether he is growing old, or what will he be doing later on in the year. And he is immutable: it does not make sense to ask whether God could change.
Despite differences with Thomas Aquinas regarding the nature of God's relation to time, Duns Scotus (c.1266–1308) upheld divine timelessness. In general, it would seem that commitment to divine simplicity, widespread if not universal in the medieval period, entails a commitment to divine eternality.
7. Modern philosophical debates
Modern discussion of the notion of eternity in a theological context has followed the trajectory set by this historical pattern, dividing itself into (broadly) eternalist and sempiternalist approaches to understanding God's relation to time. Debate has been sharpened and clarified by the use of the distinction propounded by J.M.E. McTaggart (1866–1925) between an A–series view of time, (in which the temporal series is characterised as if from some point within it, using temporal indexicals such as ‘tomorrow, ‘now’, ‘then’, ‘past’ and ‘future&rsquo😉 and a B-series view, in which the temporal series is characterised simply by the ‘earlier than’, ‘later than’, ‘simultaneous with’ relations between events, from a standpoint that is indifferent to its own temporal position. (McTaggart, 1908)" http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/eternity/ (to be continued)
13 Jun 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyIn European history, the Middle Ages, or Medieval period, lasted from the 5th to the 15th century. It began with the collapse of the Western Roman Empire and merged into the Renaissance and the Age of Discovery. The Middle Ages is the middle period of the three traditional divisions of Western history: Antiquity, Medieval period, and Modern period. The Medieval period is itself subdivided into the Early, the High, and the Late Middle Ages.
[b]"Eternity" [First published Fri Jan 20, 2006; substantive revision Thu Feb 4, 2010]
6. Medieval thinkers
[[/b]
Depopulation, deurbanisation, invasion, and movement of peoples, which had begun in Late Antiquity, continued in the Early Middle Ages. The barbarian invaders, including various Germanic peoples, formed new kingdoms in what remained of the Western Roman Empire. In the 7th century, North Africa and the Middle East, once part of the Eastern Roman Empire came under the rule of the Caliphate, an Islamic empire, after conquest by Muhammad's successors. Although there were substantial changes in society and political structures, the break with Antiquity was not complete. The still-sizeable Byzantine Empire survived in the east and remained a major power. The empire's law code, the Code of Justinian, was rediscovered in Northern Italy in 1070 and became widely admired later in the Middle Ages. In the West, most kingdoms incorporated the few extant Roman institutions. Monasteries were founded as campaigns to Christianise pagan Europe continued. The Franks, under the Carolingian dynasty, briefly established an empire covering much of Western Europe; the Carolingian Empire in the later 8th and early 9th century, when it succumbed to the pressures of internal civil wars combined with external invasions—Vikings from the north, Magyars from the east, and Saracens from the south.
During the High Middle Ages, which began after AD 1000, the population of Europe increased greatly as technological and agricultural innovations allowed trade to flourish and the Medieval Warm Period climate change allowed crop yields to increase. Manorialism, the organisation of peasants into villages that owed rent and labour services to the nobles, and feudalism, the political structure whereby knights and lower-status nobles owed military service to their overlords in return for the right to rent from lands and manors, were two of the ways society was organised in the High Middle Ages. The Crusades, first preached in 1095, were military attempts by Western European Christians to regain control of the Middle Eastern Holy Land from the Muslims. Kings became the heads of centralised nation states, reducing crime and violence but making the ideal of a unified Christendom more distant. Intellectual life was marked by scholasticism, a philosophy that emphasised joining faith to reason, and by the founding of universities. The theology of Thomas Aquinas, the paintings of Giotto, the poetry of Dante and Chaucer, the travels of Marco Polo, and the architecture of Gothic cathedrals such as Chartres are among the outstanding achievements of this period.
The Late Middle Ages was marked by difficulties and calamities including famine, plague, and war, which much diminished the population of Western Europe; between 1347 and 1350, the Black Death killed about a third of Europeans. Controversy, heresy, and schism within the Church paralleled the interstate conflict, civil strife, and peasant revolts that occurred in the kingdoms. Cultural and technological developments
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13 Jun 14
Originally posted by josephwI see and hear the creator in all that exists.
Well, I really don't see the point. 'Creating truth' sounds a lot like relativism and self actualization.
But I guess that's what distinguishes us from each other! I see and hear the creator in all that exists. You don't. I think it's because you fail to fully comprehend truth as pre-existing and objectively independent of your own existence. No insult implied.
no you think you see and hear a creator in all that exists.
I think it's because you fail to fully comprehend truth as pre-existing and objectively independent of your own existence.
being able to comprehend it doesnt make it any truer.
