Faith transcends logic

@mchill said
The God of scripture created the universe and everything in it, God Himself is the only non-created one there is. They are not close to the same, neither the scriptures that speak of God, and those that speaks to those gods.

I agree with Kelly. 🙂

So, that’s the myth you believe, is it? Still no reason to prefer that one over some other. Or none.

A: I'm imagining an apple.

B: I'm imagining a bigger one.

C: I'm imagining an even bigger one.

KellyJay: I'm imagining an infinitely big one, and the one I'm imagining created the universe!

OK, so someone's imagined an infinitely big apple which created the universe. So what? Does that make it any more logical? Does that make it a whit more likely that this infinitely big apple really exists? No, it does not.

@kellyjay said
If anyone goes to the doctor it is for medical care, I go to them for that as I go to my mechanic for car repairs. That doesn't void what I said to you.

And that's the point. You trust educated people for science-based answers for medical care. You don't go to a church when you're having a heart attack.

Faith does not "transcend" logic.

@moonbus said
Well, not if one is a Christian Scientist. (My mother was raised in this ‘faith’.) Christian Scientists hold, among other things, that sickness is God’s way of telling you something and by going to a medical doctor to get ‘cured’ you are thwarting God’s plan for you.

A doctor without faith can still treat serious medical ailments.
A person with faith can't treat those ailments without a doctor.

@vivify said
Again: the topic is faith vs. logic. Not your vague ideas of what "evidence" for something is.

Notice you didn't answer which position was more logical because the answer is obvious: it's not the one the one you support.

You have two doctors: one says you got sick due to a virus the other says you got sick because God is testing you.
Which doctor's assessment is more ...[text shortened]... logical than another. Supernatural explanations will always be less logical than naturalistic ones.

I am asking for you to share your views on why you think life could come together without a mind directing it all. I am asking for your REASONING not vague ideas. You do have some? Come on so far you only have reasons against religious beliefs, can’t you articulate positive reasoning for your own views?

@moonbus said
So, that’s the myth you believe, is it? Still no reason to prefer that one over some other. Or none.

A: I'm imagining an apple.

B: I'm imagining a bigger one.

C: I'm imagining an even bigger one.

KellyJay: I'm imagining an infinitely big one, and the one I'm imagining created the universe!

OK, so someone's imagined an infinitely big apple which created t ...[text shortened]... Does that make it a whit more likely that this infinitely big apple really exists? No, it does not.

It started when you imagined, but you too had a beginning. The prime reality, the uncause cause starts everything else everywhere. If you can avoid this please share how.

@vivify said
And that's the point. You trust educated people for science-based answers for medical care. You don't go to a church when you're having a heart attack.

Faith does not "transcend" logic.

Maybe “transcend “ is the wrong word. I’ve seen people put logic and empirical evidence in abeyance in matters of faith.

@kellyjay said
It started when you imagined, but you too had a beginning. The prime reality, the uncause cause starts everything else everywhere. If you can avoid this please share how.

Yes, of course, I had an origin. A sperm fertilized an ovum. That explains nothing of what I hold to be true or false now.

Just because I had a beginning it does not follow that the universe did.

@kellyjay said
I am asking for you to share your views on why you think life could come together without a mind directing it all. I am asking for your REASONING not vague ideas. You do have some? Come on so far you only have reasons against religious beliefs, can’t you articulate positive reasoning for your own views?

Since when is logic a "vague" idea? You realize they teach logic in universities, right? You realize critical thinking courses are a thing, right? And you realize that's the subject of this thread, right?

Reasoning doesn't matter if you've already committed to unreasonable ideas. Earlier you defended the idea that a woman can magically turn into a pillar of salt. Clearly, you don't listen to reason.

@moonbus said
Yes, of course, I had an origin. A sperm fertilized an ovum. That explains nothing of what I hold to be true or false now.

Just because I had a beginning it does not follow that the universe did.

Why not? Why do you think the universe didn’t have a beginning? What makes you think that, what is it about the universe that suggests to you it has no beginning? That a belief without any evidence, or reason, is it simply a blind statement of faith?

@vivify said
Since when is logic a "vague" idea? You realize they teach logic in universities, right? You realize critical thinking courses are a thing, right? And you realize that's the subject of this thread, right?

Reasoning doesn't matter if you've already committed to unreasonable ideas. Earlier you defended the idea that a woman can magically turn into a pillar of salt. Clearly, you don't listen to reason.

You are the one being asked to give your reasons, the justification for why you think the way you do. You need go no further than your own ideas, to provide that information, I am asking you. You really don’t like having to defend your position uh!

I am not asking you about a woman being turned into a piller of salt.

@vivify said
A doctor without faith can still treat serious medical ailments.
A person with faith can't treat those ailments without a doctor.

A doctor who does not have faith in his knowledge of medicine is doing medicine why?

@kellyjay said
A doctor who does not have faith in his knowledge of medicine is doing medicine why?

Obviously, I mean religious faith.

@kellyjay said
You are the one being asked to give your reasons, the justification for why you think the way you do. You need go no further than your own ideas, to provide that information, I am asking you. You really don’t like having to defend your position uh!

I am not asking you about a woman being turned into a piller of salt.

I have no problem defending my ideas I'm just sticking to the thread topic about whether faith supposedly "transcends" logic. That matter is easily settled with the following question:

The love of your life gets severely injured in a car accident. Which do you do first: call an ambulance or get down on your knees and pray?

Logic outranks religious faith here, as it does everywhere else.

@vivify said
Obviously, I mean religious faith.

Obviously the word applies to everything we trust in, you trying to pigeon hole it to only religion is sad,

@vivify said
I have no problem defending my ideas I'm just sticking to the thread topic about whether faith supposedly "transcends" logic. That matter is easily settled with the following question:

The love of your life gets severely injured in a car accident. Which do you do first: call an ambulance or get down on your knees and pray?

Logic outranks religious faith here, as it does everywhere else.

Frankly I don’t believe you since I have been asking for your reasoning saying mindlessness could construct life, maintain it, and cause it to become more functionally complex.