18 Jul 23
@kellyjay saidYou're trying pretty desperately to hijack the thread and go off topic since you have no argument here. So I guess we're done.
Frankly I don’t believe you since I have been asking for your reasoning saying mindlessness could construct life, maintain it, and cause it to become more functionally complex.
You already have an active thread on the subject in the Science forum (which I already replied to). I'll answer any questions you have there.
18 Jul 23
@vivify saidNot hijacking, applying faith to what is commonly accepted, sometimes with evidence and sometimes not. You land in the nothing to show for your faith area as far as I can tell.
You're trying pretty desperately to hijack the thread and go off topic since you have no argument here. So I guess we're done.
You already have an active thread on the subject in the Science forum (which I already replied to). I'll answer any questions you have there.
@kellyjay saidIt’s not a burning question for me, as it obviously is for you. Nothing in my life depends on my knowing one way or the other. Nothing about the universe suggests to me either that it had a beginning or did not have a beginning. It’s only (some) humans, not the universe, who insist on posing this question and who, having posed it, then insist on contriving a definitive answer. So take your pick of myths: it had a beginning, it had no beginning, it doesn’t matter whether it had a beginning or no beginning—there’s at least one religion which espouses each of those positions.
Why not? Why do you think the universe didn’t have a beginning? What makes you think that, what is it about the universe that suggests to you it has no beginning? That a belief without any evidence, or reason, is it simply a blind statement of faith?
18 Jul 23
@moonbus saidYour whole existence plays out on how it all started, and you don't care, that is on you.
It’s not a burning question for me, as it obviously is for you. Nothing in my life depends on my knowing one way or the other. Nothing about the universe suggests to me either that it had a beginning or did not have a beginning. It’s only (some) humans, not the universe, who insist on posing this question and who, having posed it, then insist on contriving a definitive answer ...[text shortened]... ad a beginning or no beginning—there’s at least one religion which espouses each of those positions.
19 Jul 23
@vivify saidI'll ask this one here the others on the other page.
Hey Kelly, I'm ready to answer your stupid questions:
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/science/abiogenesis-and-evolution-james-tour.197029/page-28
Ask away.
Have I gone out of my way to insult you, your ideals, or anything about you?
19 Jul 23
3 edits
@kellyjay saidYou're right. My insults weren't warranted and I fully apologize.
Have I gone out of my way to insult you, your ideals, or anything about you?
Considering the complex nature of life, its functional complexity with systems within systems, on-off switches causing things to begin and end when needed, and error checking. You believe mindlessness is responsible, if so what makes you think that?
My issue is that you know how silly religious faith is when you look at any other religion that's not yours. I'm sure you shake your head at how nonsensical The Koran or Hinduism is, yet can't see that your religion is no less illogical.
Regarding "mindlessness" I don't have a belief either way regarding whether way regarding if an intelligent designer started the universe or not. In fact, I'm not even against the idea. There's simply not evidence to support such an idea at this time.
19 Jul 23
6 edits
@kellyjay saidNo, my whole existence does not play out on how you think it all started. No more so than my currently running chess game plays out on how the very first chess game started.
Your whole existence plays out on how it all started, and you don't care, that is on you.
”That is on you”
Is that some kind of a taunt? Do you think you know something I don’t? Maybe you think I’m steaming full speed ahead to a lake of fire if I don’t believe something, is that it? If I understand anything at all about the prophet you claim to profess, it's that it does not matter what you believe. If there really is a Last Judgment, it's not about what you know or think you know or how well you can quote Scripture.
19 Jul 23
5 edits
@suzianne saidMy mentor said that faith is being prepared to believe something, no matter what the evidence might be. Including counter-evidence.
Pardon my butting in, but isn't that a definition of faith? A belief in something without evidence?
It’s not a stupid position to take. It’s just that when I look at what KellyJay, for example, actually believes, regardless whether he has evidence to support it, it’s so incoherent it makes no sense to me.
If one takes the biblical account, as KJ does, as a history of what actually happened, then one plants oneself in a universe of discourse where evidence matters. Whereas, if one takes the biblical account as I do, and as I think you are able to understand even if you don't entirely agree with it, as a moral allegory -- it's about mankind's wherefore, not about how he got here -- then one enters a different universe of discourse where physical evidence plays a very minor role and not the decisive one.
19 Jul 23
@moonbus saidNot knowing how it all begins means you have no clue why we are here and where we are going. It's no different than the game of chess, you are making moves without knowing if they are legal or not, or even if there are legal rules, and for that matter what if any consequences follow.
No, my whole existence does not play out on how you think it all started. No more so than my currently running chess game plays out on how the very first chess game started.
”That is on you”
Is that some kind of a taunt? Do you think you know something I don’t? Maybe you think I’m steaming full speed ahead to a lake of fire if I don’t believe something, i ...[text shortened]... a Last Judgment, it's not about what you know or think you know or how well you can quote Scripture.
"If there is a last Judgment..." Everything that followed carries the same weight as your proclamations on anything else you have no interest in knowing anything about. Jesus is the Son of God, He did not run around saying "Thus says the Lord" Instead, He said, "I say to you." The living Word became a man, and you don't care.
19 Jul 23
@kellyjay saidSez the man who believes in talking snakes.
Not knowing how it all begins means you have no clue why we are here and where we are going. It's no different than the game of chess, you are making moves without knowing if they are legal or not, or even if there are legal rules, and for that matter what if any consequences follow.
"If there is a last Judgment..." Everything that followed carries the same weight as you ...[text shortened]... says the Lord" Instead, He said, "I say to you." The living Word became a man, and you don't care.
Just because you can't see where I am or where I am going, doesn't mean I can't.
19 Jul 23
@moonbus saidI believe in a spiritual world that can affect this one, a God who can speak the universe into being out of nothing, and holds it together by the power of His Word. A talking snake is nothing next to a whole universe, time, consciousness, symbolic meaning, love, hate, and so on you have no explanations for and thinks trying to understand how it all got here is not worth your time.
Sez the man who believes in talking snakes.
Just because you can't see where I am or where I am going, doesn't mean I can't.
19 Jul 23
3 edits
@kellyjay saidYou worship words. Speaking the universe into existence out of nothing... If it's not written down in the Bible, you don't accept it...
I believe in a spiritual world that can affect this one, a God who can speak the universe into being out of nothing, and holds it together by the power of His Word. A talking snake is nothing next to a whole universe, time, consciousness, symbolic meaning, love, hate, and so on you have no explanations for and thinks trying to understand how it all got here is not worth your time.