Faith transcends logic

@vivify said
Again: the topic is faith vs. logic. Not your vague ideas of what "evidence" for something is.

Notice you didn't answer which position was more logical because the answer is obvious: it's not the one the one you support.

You have two doctors: one says you got sick due to a virus the other says you got sick because God is testing you.

Which doctor's assessment is mo ...[text shortened]... gical than the other. Supernatural explanations will always be less logical than naturalistic ones.

Yes, I can tell you why I believe the things I do, I have reasons, and yours are?

@kellyjay said
Yes, I can tell you why I believe the things I do, I have reasons, and yours are?

Why you believe is irrelevant for this thread. I'm simply asking which position is more logical.

Please pick an answer and don't evade: which doctor in the previous scenario is more logical: the one who says you're sick from a virus or the one who said you're sick because God is testing you?

Please answer this directly.

@kellyjay said
So using some comprehensible words why don’t you give some positive arguments towards how how life does not require a mind to put it together.

Did you read the pubmed article I posted to you several times a couple of weeks back?

20th time of asking.

@fmf said
But if he does, you'll stop talking to him.

😄

@kellyjay said
When things are written as historical events that is what it is, what it is not is nothing. The historical events that we see fall out with different people whose names are now established coming out those events, so family trees are established. Not to mention physical traces in the area.

Why do you think Genesis seems totally unaware of evolutionary biology?

@fmf said
Why do you think Genesis seems totally unaware of evolutionary biology?

There’s nothing about gravity being caused by large masses warping space either. I’ve checked.

@vivify said
Why you believe is irrelevant for this thread. I'm simply asking which position is more logical.

Please pick an answer and don't evade: which doctor in the previous scenario is more logical: the one who says you're sick from a virus or the one who said you're sick because God is testing you?

Please answer this directly.

Oh, please, if you are going to go on about why some things are true and some things are not at least have the decency to explain your reasoning. The logical position is the one that has reasons backing it up, you want an illogical position to have, then have one without being able to say why! Which so far you fall into, faith without reason.

Logically why would one mean the other is not true? Life is full of trials, they can be good things and bad, both good and bad things as we call them in this life can destroy a life.

@kellyjay said
Yes, I can tell you why I believe the things I do, I have reasons, and yours are?

No one doubts that you have reasons. Having a reason is not necessarily to have a logical reason. If a child is raised without access to any alternative religions, that could be a reason why it accepts one particular religion, but it would not be a logical reason; just a circumstance. If a child is told by its elders that it will go to a lake of fire forever and ever if it doesn't have 'faith', that too would be a reason, but not a logical one.

@kellyjay said
Oh, please, if you are going to go on about why some things are true and some things are not at least have the decency to explain your reasoning. The logical position is the one that has reasons backing it up, you want an illogical position to have, then have one without being able to say why! Which so far you fall into, faith without reason.

Logically why would one mean ...[text shortened]... an be good things and bad, both good and bad things as we call them in this life can destroy a life.

What is your reason for rejecting the scientific explanation for the cause of gravity?

@vivify said

faith
noun
1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

2.
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

"Faith" has more than one meaning. Your type of faith falls into the second one, which is the focus of the OP.

"Not that there's anything wrong with that."

@moonbus said
No one doubts that you have reasons. Having a reason is not necessarily to have a logical reason. If a child is raised without access to any alternative religions, that could be a reason why it accepts one particular religion, but it would not be a logical reason; just a circumstance. If a child is told by its elders that it will go to a lake of fire forever and ever if it doesn't have 'faith', that too would be a reason, but not a logical one.

I wasn't raised Christian, I didn't become one until I was 25, being 67 now it has been a while. The lake of fire was not the thing that got to me, it still isn't but I accept the reality of it. My parents were not Christian, I didn't know any growing up, knew about them but had no dealings with them.

This is all fine and good, I don't think it is a strong reason for anything, if you were born in Germany around 1900 would that mean due to the culture you would have applied for a job at one of the concentration camps to help exterminate the unwanted? If you were born in the deep American South when racism was out in the open would you have hated people of color? You will find that Christians were also in places like that during those times that they were faithful to God and cared for their fellowmen too, even at the cost of their lives, that would not have been logical in strictly human terms, would it? Logically going with the flow, hating the hated, that would have been the logical long lasting thing to do.

@kellyjay said
Oh, please, if you are going to go on about why some things are true and some things are not at least have the decency to explain your reasoning. The logical position is the one that has reasons backing it up, you want an illogical position to have, then have one without being able to say why! Which so far you fall into, faith without reason.

Logically why would one mean ...[text shortened]... an be good things and bad, both good and bad things as we call them in this life can destroy a life.

Okay, so you won't answer the question. To be expected.

It seems you realize choosing a doctor with supernatural explanations instead science-based ones would be silly. Not even your own faith outranks science if your health was on the line.

@vivify said
Okay, so you won't answer the question. To be expected.

It seems you realize choosing a doctor with supernatural explanations instead science-based ones would be silly. Not even your own faith outranks science if your health was on the line.

If anyone goes to the doctor it is for medical care, I go to them for that as I go to my mechanic for car repairs. That doesn't void what I said to you.

@kellyjay said
Oh gee you don’t believe therefore it isn’t true. The gods of the ancient world were born and raised by other so called gods who also had beginnings starting within the universe.

The God of scripture created the universe and everything in it, God Himself is the only non-created one there is. They are not close to the same, neither the scriptures that speak of God, and those that speaks to those gods.

The God of scripture created the universe and everything in it, God Himself is the only non-created one there is. They are not close to the same, neither the scriptures that speak of God, and those that speaks to those gods.

I agree with Kelly. 🙂

@vivify said
Okay, so you won't answer the question. To be expected.

It seems you realize choosing a doctor with supernatural explanations instead science-based ones would be silly. Not even your own faith outranks science if your health was on the line.

Well, not if one is a Christian Scientist. (My mother was raised in this ‘faith’.) Christian Scientists hold, among other things, that sickness is God’s way of telling you something and by going to a medical doctor to get ‘cured’ you are thwarting God’s plan for you.