Four Kinds of Forgiveness

@suzianne said
Not arguing so much, as maybe prompting him to go further.
Saying "I don't know what's good, but this over here is bad" doesn't help much.

I disagree. The doctrine of death that is eternal suffering is a horrendous lie and quite easily debunked using scripture, logic and appeals to basic morality.

I do not need to come up with an alternative to error, I refute and debunk the error and that is sufficient.

@suzianne said
This is actually one of your better posts on this topic.

You concentrate on scripture and for once, you do not concentrate on how you think some other poster might favor their opinion because they must be evilly motivated or something. Here you address the points without beating them about the head and shoulders for something they said or for how you think they are motiv ...[text shortened]... . It shows that you put some thought into it and weren't just lashing out. More like this, please.

Interesting then how despite my several bumps and nudges, sonship chooses to ignore it. He is NOT interested in truth, he is ONLY interested in propagating his error. Several posters in this forum challenge him on the same thing.

@suzianne said
Realistically thinking, though, his ideology on this IS the Christian mainstream. Those of us speaking out about it here are in the minority.

The pure love of God can save all of us. I'm not sure that the wrath of God has ever saved anyone.

Since when has the "christian mainstream" been a barometer for measuring truth?

@sonship said
@Suzianne

This is actually one of your better posts on this topic.

You concentrate on scripture and for once, you do not concentrate on how you think some other poster might favor their opinion because they must be evilly motivated or something. Here you address the points without beating them about the head and shoulders for something they said or for how you ...[text shortened]...

That did not go unnoticed by me either.

IMO it was one of the better of his posts.

And yet you completely ignored it, dodged the content and ideology within it.

@sonship said
@Suzianne

The pure love of God can save all of us. I'm not sure that the wrath of God has ever saved anyone.

When God swallowed up Pharoah and his pursuing army in the Red Sea in His wrath, was that an expression also of His love for His saved Israelites brought out in the Exodus ?

No it was a symbol of how God frees us from our past lives in a way that nothing else could.

@fmf said
The two of you worship versions of supposedly the same God that are utterly and completely different at their very essence. You don't seem to have the courage of your convictions.

FMF: Let's talk about dads. What was your dad like, sonship?

sonship: He used to burn us on our arms with a lit cigarette when he was angry. The burns would go septic. We often couldn't sleep. He ...[text shortened]... p children and never will be, so what does it matter?

sonship: Thanks for your support, Suzianne.

An excellent analogy of the posting relationship between sonship and Suzianne.

@sonship said
@FMF

Your version of the Christian God is utterly different from sonship's. He thinks the "perfect morality" demonstrated by his version of the Christian God is tormenting the "damned" in a burning fire for eternity. You don't. It's not an insignificant difference. It goes to the very essence of the Christian God's nature.

Why shouldn't you be made to ...[text shortened]... your irreconcilable enmity ?

Your deep self love makes your eternal punishment not just of God ?

I think you spouting off about another person's self love is toe-curling hypocritical

@fmf said
Then what is the purpose of threatening to - and then carrying out - the torment of non-believers in burning flames for eternity?

What is the moral purpose of it? If you don't think "that the wrath of God has ever saved anyone", what on earth is the eternal torture after death for?

Why threaten it if it has never saved anyone?

You and sonship are talking about versions of the Christian God that reside in two completely different moral and logical universes.

The unanswerable question.

KellyJay will be along in moment (if he hasn't already) to cough up another fur-ball about the fallen state of man and how evil everyone is including him but except him because he is "saved" and how god really has no choice but to torture people for eternity because he is holy and can't control hoe holy he is so it's all not really his fault.

@divegeester

And yet you completely ignored it, dodged the content and ideology within it.

It sounds like you are dying for a debate, yet another cycle of repeated exchanges. Do you think you are more prepared this time or that your answers have become better?

It sounds like arguing again with you is mandatory for participation in the Forum. We've been through most all of your points before.

If you are fully persuaded, you have no need that everyone see it as you do, do you?

What's wrong with both of us looking for someone new to talk to?

@divegeester

I think you spouting off about another person's self love is toe-curling hypocritical

"Toe - curling?" That sounds real bad.

No, I admit that I have inordinate self love also. Somehow by the mercy of God my eyes were opened to see the love of Christ for my soul was to be accepted. And that, even though God is infinitely holy, righteous, and glorious.

Though the distance is great between what He is and what I became in this cursed worlds, His love and salvation I accept as the wiser choice to closing up against Him.

What can I say? God has had mercy on me to give me the ability to believe in Jesus Christ.

Do you want to know the truth? Sometimes when I read the posts of these super smart guys and their atheistic arguments, I pause for a moment and wonder - "Lord, it is amazing that I am able to believe Your word."

Its somewhat of a miracle that I believe the Gospel.

@sonship said
@divegeester

I think you spouting off about another person's self love is toe-curling hypocritical

"Toe - curling?" That sounds real bad.
I admit that I have inordinate self love also.

Self awareness is a route to wisdom, I think.

@sonship said
@divegeester

And yet you completely ignored it, dodged the content and ideology within it.

It sounds like you are dying for a debate, yet another cycle of repeated exchanges.
It sounds like arguing again with you is mandatory for participation in the Forum. We've been through most all of your points before.

Sounds like you are just dodging.

@divegeester

Sounds like you are just dodging.

You might call reluctance for repeating the same argument with the same person when only one discussion was necessary - "dodging."

I'll accept that.

The matters you've raised from Revelation have been examined by me before.

You can have a different opinion on it from me.

@sonship said
What's wrong with both of us looking for someone new to talk to?

Perhaps you should enter into conversations with the "hundreds of people" on this website you claim may now be facing eternal torment in burning flames as a result of seeing me talking to you. Why aren't those "hundreds of people" talking to you?

@fmf said
Perhaps you should enter into conversations with the "hundreds of people" on this website you claim may now be facing eternal torment in burning flames as a result of seeing me talking to you. Why aren't those "hundreds of people" talking to you?

Judging from the heavy traffic on your new thread "Sermon On The Mount" maybe they're clamoring and waiting in line to talk to you instead.