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Originally posted by @suzianneI was going to stay out but as your off topic tub-thumping and snideness was aimed at me I've decided to give my thoughts.
Your questions are NOT "on-topic".
FMF's question to sonship is on topic and fair.
"Do you (sonship) consider yourself to a good Christian to follow"
In fact the question is aimed precisely at the nub of this thread and the question is exactly lazer-beam spot on target at the vanity and lack of humility which is preventing sonship from simply saying "no".
Sonship has let himself down quite badly in the forum I'm recent weeks and this whole thread is a vehicle for sonship to remind himself and others here of his self-perceived role as an RHP forum minister.
That is my honest opinion.
Originally posted by @fmfAll who know God are automatically forgiven. They will always ain, but their sins are covered by Christ's sacrifice.
Are "Christians" who are "works in progress" automatically "forgiven" [because Jesus was executed for sedition] and thus irreversibly "saved" even if they "sin", as you have claimed about yourself?
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Originally posted by @divegeesterWell let me see if something constructive can be gleaned from responding to this- related to the topic.
I was going to stay out but as your off topic tub-thumping and snideness was aimed at me I've decided to give my thoughts.
FMF's question to sonship is on topic and fair.
[b]"Do you (sonship) consider yourself to a good Christian to follow"
In fact the question is aimed precisely at the nub of this thread and the question is exactl ...[text shortened]... others here of his self-perceived role as an RHP forum minister.
That is my honest opinion.[/b]
]I was going to stay out ...
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The thread addresses some of your ideas about being imitators and plagiarizing.
FMF's question to sonship is on topic and fair.
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And I can dodge him if I choose and spend more time on more profitable things.
"Do you (sonship) consider yourself to a good Christian to follow"
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Alright, alright.
It is better to follow any man receiving Jesus as Lord than following any man who doesn't.
In terms of going from the unbeliever thing, which cannot last forever, to believer in God and Christ, sure, follow me. Follow any saint here who believes the Good News.
Learn from any Christian for this initial step.
But I don't think the questioner will do that.
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In fact the question is aimed precisely at the nub of this thread and the question is exactly lazer-beam spot on target at the vanity and lack of humility which is preventing sonship from simply saying "no".
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This is damned if you do / damned if you don't trap.
If I said "Yes, follow me" sure ridicule will follow.
If I said "No, do not follow me" surer ridicule will follow.
This is :
1.) A catch 22 trap.
2.) A typical maneuver to stir up time wasting introspection.
Mostly I was recommending people who consider the example of Paul to the Thessalonians.
Now we have, as expected -
"No sonship. We want you to say you're a pattern and example, so we can object."
Or
"No sonship, We want you to say you're not a pattern and example, so we can criticize that way."
Darn it sonship! Fall into one of our traps or the other like a good Forum guy.
Sonship has let himself down quite badly
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Sounds sad.
Look away unto Jesus.
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in the forum I'm recent weeks and this whole thread is a vehicle for sonship to remind himself and others here of his self-perceived role as an RHP forum minister.
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Every Christian is a "minister:"
The Christian must realize the priesthood of the believer.
I think what your quip really intends to say is that "sonship is the clergyman."
Once again, I believe EVERY follower of Jesus Christ ... is a minister.
That is my honest opinion.
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What do you think of Paul's word here to the Christians in Corinth ?
" For you can all prophesy one by one that all may learn and all may be encouraged." (1 Cor. 14:31)
Granted, that we are not in a church meeting per se.
But there are a number of Christians around.
I would say that we may all speak for God, one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.
I wish to minister life and truth like any other good minister of Christ Jesus for spiritual nourishment. This is the Spirituality Forum.
" If you lay these things before the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, being nourished with the words of the faith and of the good teaching which you have closely followed." (1 Timothy 4:6)
See? Sure, every Christian can be a "good minister of Christ Jesus" laying before the saints and the seekers the truth of the gospel.
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Back to Paul's significant example.
He was worthy of imitation in that he did not seek glory from man.
"Nor did we seek glory from men, neither from you nor from others, though we could have stood on our authority as apostles of Christ." (2 Thess. 2:6)
i would want to imitate Christians who are not vain glory seeking.
They live their lives before God's eyes to be pleasing to God.
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Paul did not assert authority in a heavy handed way with the Thessalonian church.
He says that he and his workers could have stood on their authority as apostles.
But they did not.
" ... though we could have stood on our authority as apostles of Christ." (1 Thess. 2:6b)
He did not speak down to them from a lofty authoritative level.
They were willing to give up their dignity as Jesus had given example, when He washed the feet of the disciples in John 13.
It is ugly for Christian workers to assert authoritative standing of dignity.
As in 1 Cor. 9:12 he had a right. But he chose not to stand upon that right.
This is a kind of Christian that inspires my desire to follow her or his life example and teaching.
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Originally posted by @sonshipso is that a yes or a no?
"Do you (sonship) consider yourself to a good Christian to follow"
Alright, alright.
It is better to follow any man receiving Jesus as Lord than following any man who doesn't.
In terms of going from the unbeliever thing, which cannot last forever, to believer in God and Christ, sure, follow me. Follow any saint here who believes the Good News.
Learn from any Christian for this initial step.
But I don't think the questioner will do that.
Originally posted by @sonshipMight this, then, arguably be a reason not to imitate you? Or, what about Eladar? His denunciations of just about every fellow Christian here - including you, if I recall correctly - as "Children of Satan", has always struck me as "vain glory seeking" (although, admittedly, a different brand from yours) ~ would he be a Christian that people should not want to imitate, to your way of thinking?
I would want to imitate Christians who are not vain glory seeking.
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When one starts a thread on "Good Christians to Follow" it is typical that the career skeptic of all things Christian will IMMEDIATELY launch into a diatribe (albeit in question form) that no known Christians are worth following.
This is pretty much what we have from FMF here.
Of course the exhortation from the New Testament is to follow some AS ... they are following Jesus Christ. In other words, don't be imitators of evil but of good. Good of course being the Righteous One Jesus the Son of God.
" Beloved, do not imitate the evil, but the good. " (3 John 3:11a)
"Be therefore imitators of God, as beloved children." (Eph. 5:1)
From the beginning of this thread I recommended the verse that says to be imitators of those who are inheriting the promises (Heb. 6:12) .
Imitate them AS they are inheriting the promises.
This is not imitate them when the fail to inherit the promises - expressing Christ in their living.
To this post I expect FMF to probably gleefully now to say something like -
? ? ? Oh, so then you don't deserve to be followed then ? ? ?
The more we Christians try to make a discussion about Christ, Christ, and Christ the more FMF will work to morph it into being about You, You, You.
Everybody has to be all introspectively hung up on themselves.
The premise of this thread is simple -
Don't look around for example of Christians to give you reasons to disbelieve.
Take note of any who give you encouragement that the promises of God are obtainable.
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Originally posted by @divegeester
so is that a yes or a no?
Its not a completely unqualified Yes or an unqualified No.
It is a "It depends".
Paul did not say to follow him no matter what.
He said follow to him AS ... he followed Christ.
" Be imitators of me, as I also am of Christ." (1 Cor. 11:1)
Its strange that this should be a hard concept for anyone to grasp.
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Originally posted by @sonshipIt's your thread, it is obvious that you started out of vanity and it begs the question which FMF asked youso is that a yes or a no?
Its not a completely unqualified Yes or an unqualified No.
It is a "It depends".
Do you consider yourself a "good Christian to follow" sonship.
Either you do, or you don't. "Depends" is just evasion.
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Originally posted by @divegeesterNo evasion. "It depends" is what the Bible itself says in this way:
It's your thread, it is obvious that you started out of vanity and it begs the question which FMF asked you
[b]Do you consider yourself a "good Christian to follow" sonship.
Either you do, or you don't. "Depends" is just evasion.[/b]
Ie.
1 Corinthians 11:1English Standard Version (ESV)
11 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.
" Be imitators of me, as I also am of Christ." (1 Cor. 11:1) Recovery Version
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Originally posted by @avalanchethecatThis is not necessarily true.
If you follow somebody else you will never find your own path.
There should be truth and its path to truth which is both intimately personal and inclusively universal also.
A bird needs two wings to fly. She cannot fly with only one wing.
In the path to reality there is a very personal aspect yet also a corporate aspect.
Striking the balance is needed.