Good evil

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I don't believe in 'mother nature' or the idea that nature in any way cares for us. Indeed, nature is often hostile and it is us who have to adapt/evolve not to be destroyed by it. In this context, terminal diseases and earthquakes are not surprising. - In a Christian context however, where God is the creator of everything, terminal diseases and earthquakes are very much surprising.

Complaining about something you think is no big deal in your worldview, something not surprising seems odd, why complain about it? If you are going to look at the Christian context the curse explains it, you have to look at the whole, if you only look at this as what you think God should have done if you were God, you miss the context completely.

@kellyjay said
Complaining about something you think is no big deal in your worldview, something not surprising seems odd, why complain about it? If you are going to look at the Christian context the curse explains it, you have to look at the whole, if you only look at this as what you think God should have done if you were God, you miss the context completely.

It is not a complaint, it is me highlighting the difference between how atheists and theists have to deal with anomalies like terminal diseases and earthquakes. For atheists they are just natural parts of a world not designed with us in mind, which for theists they raise questions as to why a perfect deity would allow such things. - How about having a go at an answer to this question:

If God is the creator of everything, why are there terminal diseases and earthquakes?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
It is not a complaint, it is me highlighting the difference between how atheists and theists have to deal with anomalies like terminal diseases and earthquakes. For atheists they are just natural parts of a world not designed with us in mind, which for theists they raise questions as to why a perfect deity would allow such things. - How about having a go at an answer ...[text shortened]... s question:

If God is the creator of everything, why are there terminal diseases and earthquakes?

Let me see, the CURSE!

@kellyjay said
Let me see, the CURSE!

We evolved as a species. There was no Adam and Eve in a garden. It was never meant to be taken literally. There was no fall, no curse.

Try again.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
We evolved as a species. There was no Adam and Eve in a garden. It was never meant to be taken literally. There was no fall, no curse.

Try again.

So you say, but that is the discussion, you asked about the Christian view, I answered repeatedly it is because of the curse. It is due to something evil done so what we see is something that should not be.

You view it as normal in your worldview I do not, I believe that once evil is completely dealt with, what should be, will be.

It is either normal or a deviation of what reality ought to be. You find this totally acceptable and accurate as reality is, I do not.

@kellyjay said
So you say, but that is the discussion, you asked about the Christian view, I answered repeatedly it is because of the curse. It is due to something evil done so what we see is something that should not be.

You view it as normal in your worldview I do not, I believe that once evil is completely dealt with, what should be, will be.

It is either normal or a deviation of what reality ought to be. You find this totally acceptable and accurate as reality is, I do not.

Not all Christians take the Adam and Eve story literally.

Are you aware of one of the most important surviving texts written by Origen, a third century Church father? On the Adam and Eve thing he wrote:

'And who is found so ignorant as to suppose that God, as if He had been a husbandman, planted trees in paradise, in Eden towards the east, and a tree of life in it, i.e., a visible and palpable tree of wood, so that any one eating of it with bodily teeth should obtain life, and, eating again of another tree, should come to the knowledge of good and evil? No one, I think, can doubt that the statement that God walked in the afternoon in paradise, and that Adam lay hid under a tree, is related figuratively in Scripture, that some mystical meaning may be indicated by it.'

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Not all Christians take the Adam and Eve story literally.

Are you aware of one of the most important surviving texts written by Origen, a third century Church father? On the Adam and Eve thing he wrote:

'And who is found so ignorant as to suppose that God, as if He had been a husbandman, planted trees in paradise, in Eden towards the east, and a tree of life in ...[text shortened]... er a tree, is related figuratively in Scripture, that some mystical meaning may be indicated by it.'

I don’t care what other people think as have pointed out its the scripture not me that matters, you can correct me with it, without it all going on is a discussion about ideas.

@kellyjay said
I don’t care what other people think as have pointed out its the scripture not me that matters, you can correct me with it, without it all going on is a discussion about ideas.

You don't care what Origen, a third century Church father, has to say about it?

@fmf said
What does "truly" mean in the way you use it here? "Very, very"?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit."

I'll make an attempt to answer you truly, by using a bottom line.

Truly, any apparent evil which ends well, is well and good.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
You don't care what Origen, a third century Church father, has to say about it?

I care about what the scriptures say much more than people who talk about it.

@pettytalk said
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit."

I'll make an attempt to answer you truly, by using a bottom line.

Truly, any apparent evil which ends well, is well and good.

Evil never ends well, God is a God of life, righteousness, goodness, and love. At no time is evil anything other than evil. Bringing forth life is good, much of the world thinks death is preferable so abortion, genocide, war, and murder are a large parts of the human condition.

@pettytalk said
Truly, any apparent evil which ends well, is well and good.

Why would you call it "evil" if it is beneficial?

@kellyjay said
Evil never ends well, God is a God of life, righteousness, goodness, and love. At no time is evil anything other than evil. Bringing forth life is good,?much of the world thinks death is preferable so abortion, genocide, war, and murder are a large parts of the human condition.

Bringing forth life is good? Much of the world thinks death is preferable

What does "much of the world" mean? Is it accompanied by a vague hand gesture?

@kellyjay said
I care about what the scriptures say much more than people who talk about it.

That might be where you are going wrong. (As you don't have a direct understanding of scripture). Sometimes it is good to listen to other Christians who had read the same scripture.

@kellyjay said
Evil never ends well, God is a God of life, righteousness, goodness, and love. At no time is evil anything other than evil. Bringing forth life is good, much of the world thinks death is preferable so abortion, genocide, war, and murder are a large parts of the human condition.

You seem to have missed out capital punishment.