Hawking: Universe happened without god.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Like "what does God need with a starship"? lol

I have no idea. What does god need with a starship? Perhaps he needs one to travel through the universe although I'd think an omnipotent god wouldn't need such conveyances.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Ockham's Razor does not help a godless beginning of all things, to use that you
have to know what was required, what makes all things equal, and there isn't
anything outside of Creation that touches it. He does not know how it started,
he thinks it could be one way or another, the fact that he has to use quantum
fluctuation out of the gate says where di ...[text shortened]... he thinks: "We are the product of quantum fluctuations in the very early universe."
Kelly

Ockham's Razor requires a godless beginning if no god is required for that beginning. Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity. If I do not need a god I should not create one unless there is no other way to explain something.

Not knowing doesn't constitute evidence for a god of any sort, it just says "I don't know". Not knowing also does not mean we will never know. Filling the current gap in our knowledge with god seems just a bit disrespectful. Reducing god to crack filler is one reason I have little respect for those that insist on the absolute truth of the biblical account.

If we have to ask where the quantum fluctuations come from then asking where god comes from is also valid. If the answer is "god has always been" then why cannot the quantum fluctuations have always existed?

Originally posted by Kepler
I have no idea. What does god need with a starship? Perhaps he needs one to travel through the universe although I'd think an omnipotent god wouldn't need such conveyances.

It was a line from a movie.

Originally posted by sonhouse
You say he has to use hearing aids now?

Probably.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
Can I just ask you one question?

Before Christ came on the scene, do you think that people, who stoned to death men caught in bed with another man, were commiting an act of evil?

Do you think the 'Religion is freedom' concept applied to the men who died in this way?

Good question. Let me think on this awhile. I'm not avoiding the question. I kind of have to see if my initial reaction to this is in line with my own values. Give me a day for this one.

Originally posted by Kepler
Ockham's Razor requires a godless beginning if no god is required for that beginning. Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity. If I do not need a god I should not create one unless there is no other way to explain something.

Not knowing doesn't constitute evidence for a god of any sort, it just says "I don't know". Not knowing also does not mean ...[text shortened]... er is "god has always been" then why cannot the quantum fluctuations have always existed?

How do you know, no God is required? As I pointed out something from nothing
isn't ever answered, ever! There is always something that is apart of the
current universe that caused another part of the current universe and so on.
While God is the creator of the universe and does not have a cause. So unless
you can come up with a something from nothing that doesn't require something
that needs to be created other than God you have no answer.

If you can say anything has always been that can be shown as true through
science well you'll have something, but if you have to say I believe, you've
faith, and you are only changing one eternal something for God eternal. Which
puts all things back to being equal, and God is just a valid reason or cause than
any other matter of faith, and in my opinion more so.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
1... As I pointed out something from nothing isn't ever answered, ever!

2.There is always something that is apart of the current universe that caused
another part of the current universe and so on.

3. While God is the creator of the universe and does not have a cause.

Why is your statement "3" exempt from your laws '1' and '2' ???

Originally posted by KellyJay
There is always something that is apart of the current universe that caused another part of the current universe and so on.

I know I have pointed this out to you many many times before, but that claim is not known to be true, and quantum mechanics strongly suggests that it is false.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Good question. Let me think on this awhile. I'm not avoiding the question. I kind of have to see if my initial reaction to this is in line with my own values. Give me a day for this one.

No problem.

Originally posted by Suzianne
How many times do I have to say it before I'm taken seriously??

Evil is done on this planet by [b]evil men. These evil men are everywhere. Some are in government. Some are in religion. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is as ridiculous as giving them a free ride. Let's concentrate on getting these evil men out of the job of controlling ot ...[text shortened]... subjugation. It is evil men who are responsible for these acts, not the religion.[/b]

We all have some evil within us. It is just a matter of degree. We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Originally posted by sonhouse
What part of keeping religious indoctrination to itself in a religion class do you not understand? You fully approve of forcing the anti-science stance of creationism to be force fed as if it were a science IN A SCIENCE CLASS.

That is more than stupid, it is criminal. You want religious indoctrination, keep it in a religious indoctrination class so the stench doesn't invade real science.

I would be satisfied in the truth were taught. I am not advocating for religious rituals or anything of that nature be taught in the science class or in any class in school, only the truth.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
Can I just ask you one question?

Before Christ came on the scene, do you think that people, who stoned to death men caught in bed with another man, were commiting an act of evil?

Do you think the 'Religion is freedom' concept applied to the men who died in this way?

Of course not. They were carrying out the law as it was written for that time. That is like asking today if the executioner who pulls the switch to electrocute a convicted mass murderer is committing an act of evil. He is doing his job.

Originally posted by sonhouse
You said it all with one word in that disgusting tirade: Exactly. Agreeing with Dasa.

That puts you several notches down the food chain of credibility, lower than you were before, which was pretty much at the bottom anyway.

You are such an idiot.

Originally posted by Kepler
I have no idea. What does god need with a starship? Perhaps he needs one to travel through the universe although I'd think an omnipotent god wouldn't need such conveyances.

It beams Him down to Earth when He wants to intervene in the affairs of man.

Originally posted by Kepler
Ockham's Razor requires a godless beginning if no god is required for that beginning. Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity. If I do not need a god I should not create one unless there is no other way to explain something.

Not knowing doesn't constitute evidence for a god of any sort, it just says "I don't know". Not knowing also does not mean ...[text shortened]... er is "god has always been" then why cannot the quantum fluctuations have always existed?

Not knowing just means you are ignorant.