Hawking: Universe happened without god.

Originally posted by Kepler
I aint an atheist. Those critter deny the possibility of a god of any description. If a real god turned up tomorrow complete with "I'm a god! Worship me!" T-shirt they would still refuse to believe.

I happily admit I have no idea whether or not a real god exists, I just haven't so far needed one to explain the workings of the universe. If I do happen to st ...[text shortened]... next post in the thread. I suspect it will be boring reading only your own posts though.

I believe it is my duty as a Christian to challenge the misinformation and lies you present on this forum. I'll make a deal with you, if you will just present all your scientism views on the science forum, then I will just present all my Christian views on the Spirituality Forum. Do we have an agreement?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
give me one scientific theory that thinks all things came from nothing?

The Big Bang Theory

The Big Bang theory is an effort to explain what happened at the very beginning of our universe. Discoveries in astronomy and physics have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that our universe did in fact have a beginning. Prior to that moment there was nothing; during and after that moment there was something: our universe. The big bang theory is an effort to explain what happened during and after that moment.

http://www.big-bang-theory.com/

All physical things actually came from God. That includes the universe, in case you didn't know.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
give me one scientific theory that thinks all things came from nothing?

I believe I can do better than that, you cannot show me anything that you
don't believe came from something else! It seems all science does is look
backwards as to what came before what we see now, we date the whole
universe with a period of time which I'd point out declares a start for
everything! The trouble you have is that by doing that a major hole becomes
very clear, well if this came from that and you keep going backwards, you run
into a point that doesn't work any more. Unless a cause is eternal and not part
of this universe than we have an unanswered question, if you stop anywhere
before that you run into why if this was the first thing did it change into other
things? A change requires a cause or reason, a static state does nothing but
remain static.
Kelly

Originally posted by RJHinds
The Big Bang Theory

The Big Bang theory is an effort to explain what happened at the very beginning of our universe. Discoveries in astronomy and physics have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that our universe did in fact have a beginning. Prior to that moment [b]there was nothing; during and after that moment there was something: our universe. The big ...[text shortened]... l physical things actually came from God. That includes the universe, in case you didn't know.[/b]

The Big Band does not talk about where everything came from.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
The Big Band does not talk about where everything came from.
Kelly

"Prior to that moment there was nothing; during and after that moment there was something: our universe."


What is that talking about?

ORIGIN OF THE UNIVERSE
http://www.allaboutcreation.org/origin-of-the-universe.htm

Originally posted by KellyJay
I believe I can do better than that, you cannot show me anything that you
don't believe came from something else!

It is not clear what you mean here.
I believe Hawking radiation does not come from anything other than 'empty' space.
So is your challenge perhaps simply asking whether I believe every point in time has a prior point in time?
If so, the answer is no, I do not know whether time is infinite, and if it is finite, then I believe the universe did not come from something else in that there was nothing prior to it.

Originally posted by twhitehead
It is not clear what you mean here.
I believe Hawking radiation does not come from anything other than 'empty' space.
So is your challenge perhaps simply asking whether I believe every point in time has a prior point in time?
If so, the answer is no, I do not know whether time is infinite, and if it is finite, then I believe the universe did not come from something else in that there was nothing prior to it.

Do you believe the following?

Now we understand that there are only two legitimate options for the origin of the universe:

(1) Someone made the universe (Intelligent Design), or
(2) The universe made itself (Random Chance).

The third option, the universe has always been here, is no longer a feasible alternative -- it contradicts empirical science. No other scientifically plausible theories for the origin of the universe have ever been proposed.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Do you believe the following?

[b]Now we understand that there are only two legitimate options for the origin of the universe:

(1) Someone made the universe (Intelligent Design), or
(2) The universe made itself (Random Chance).

The third option, the universe has always been here, is no longer a feasible alternative -- it contradicts empirical sci ...[text shortened]... er scientifically plausible theories for the origin of the universe have ever been proposed.[/b]

No. I don't believe 1) is a legitimate option. I don't believe 2) makes any sense. I dispute the claim about the third option. And I believe there are several other options including:
4. What we typically call 'the universe' is part of some greater structure. (note that 1) falls within this, so you cannot dispute it)
5. Time is finite in the past, and asking about what made it is incoherent.

Originally posted by twhitehead
No. I don't believe 1) is a legitimate option. I don't believe 2) makes any sense. I dispute the claim about the third option. And I believe there are several other options including:
4. What we typically call 'the universe' is part of some greater structure. (note that 1) falls within this, so you cannot dispute it)
5. Time is finite in the past, and asking about what made it is incoherent.

One can dispute anything, but what do you actually believe about the origin of the universe? That is, do you ignore modern science and go back to the old atheist theory that the universe has always existed and is eternal or do you have some other strong belief about it?

Originally posted by RJHinds
"Prior to that moment there was nothing; during and after that moment there was something: our universe."


What is that talking about?

ORIGIN OF THE UNIVERSE
http://www.allaboutcreation.org/origin-of-the-universe.htm

Not how I understand it, the singularity was there which was something;
moreover, it had to be in a place so we have to assume it was somewhere
(the somewhere is also something) which again avoids the question where
did it all come from? The only thing this does is take everything and put it
all into another state it does not address where it came from or why.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Not how I understand it, the singularity was there which was something;
moreover, it had to be in a place so we have to assume it was somewhere
(the somewhere is also something) which again avoids the question where
did it all come from? The only thing this does is take everything and put it
all into another state it does not address where it came from or why.
Kelly

The singularity is a made-up word referring to the unknown to replace the idea of God as creator for those that don't believe in a creaetor God. They don't want to admit the obvious or their lack of knowledge on this subject, so they create a new word and assign mysterious properties to it.

Go here for the definition of singularity:

http://www.singularitysymposium.com/definition-of-singularity.html

Originally posted by RJHinds
One can dispute anything, but what do you actually believe about the origin of the universe? That is, do you ignore modern science and go back to the old atheist theory that the universe has always existed and is eternal or do you have some other strong belief about it?

Modern science does not yet have any findings whatsoever with regards to the origin of the universe. As a good scientist, I do not believe anything without evidence. So I have no beliefs with regards to the origin of the universe, other than a belief that there are a number of possibilities that have not been ruled out, although I do not include your 1) as one of them.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Modern science does not yet have any findings whatsoever with regards to the origin of the universe. As a good scientist, I do not believe anything without evidence. So I have no beliefs with regards to the origin of the universe, other than a belief that there are a number of possibilities that have not been ruled out, although I do not include your 1) as one of them.

So it appears that you are only interested in the criticism of other who have beliefs. Is that your main reason for posting on the Spirituality Forum, since it appears obvious that you do not believe in spiritual things?

Originally posted by KellyJay
The Big Band does not talk about where everything came from.
Kelly

That's right, because the Big Band is too busying playing jazz and swing!

Originally posted by RJHinds
The singularity is a made-up word referring to the unknown to replace the idea of God as creator for those that don't believe in a creaetor God. They don't want to admit the obvious or their lack of knowledge on this subject, so they create a new word and assign mysterious properties to it.

Go here for the definition of singularity:

http://www.singularitysymposium.com/definition-of-singularity.html

Physician, heal thyself!