29 Jul 14
Originally posted by divegeesterI'm not "painting" I am declaring and demonstrating through examples I gave earlier how your views on certain issues are extreme. I don't expect you to agree.
[b]When I have something to say that requires scripture I'll give the
scripture that applies to it as I see it. If you are asking about what I think
about what you think, I think....not interested in that!
Of course.
You want to paint me as an extreme view, so you I guess you've judged
me. Why do you care what I think, if I'm extreme? You ...[text shortened]... ate - i.e. if I didn't think your view were extreme, you wouldn't have to defend them would you.
You took something I said, changed it to mean something quite different
and when I corrected you, you ignored me. I'd call that painting, it most
certainly isn't accepting what I tell you!
Kelly
29 Jul 14
Originally posted by sonshipIs the second death, death? Or is it eternal life of burning in hell?Sonship, the belief that god will put people who reject him into a place of eternal burning where he will watch with his angels is the single most horrendous notion conceived by man,
The passage that you allude to [b]Revelation 14:9,10,11 was not inserted by the Inquisitors or by the Westboro Baptist Church or by Oliver Green's Gospe ...[text shortened]... God Himself sees the need, when I am fully conformed to His image.
For length, I stop here.[/b]
29 Jul 14
Originally posted by KellyJayLet's start again then. What part of the below do think is not biblical truth:
[b]I'm not "painting" I am declaring and demonstrating through examples I gave earlier how your views on certain issues are extreme. I don't expect you to agree.
You took something I said, changed it to mean something quite different
and when I corrected you, you ignored me. I'd call that painting, it most
certainly isn't accepting what I tell you!
Kelly[/b]
Those who are not Christian will be cast into a lake of fire and burned for all eternity in torment and agony.
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29 Jul 14
Most of this debate revolves around Revelation 20:10...If Revelation 20:10 is coming to your mind as an apparent contradiction, that’s great—it should. It speaks of the Devil and a couple of his henchman being thrown in the lake of fire and being “tormented day and night forever and ever.” However, the Bible was not written in English, and when we dig a bit deeper, we see that “forever and ever” in the Greek is more accurately “for ages unto ages.” In keeping with God’s decree in Genesis 3:15 that Jesus would eventually “crush the head” of the Devil (that is, destroy him), Ezekiel 28:18 declares that the Devil will be “brought to ashes.”
Furthermore, John 3:16 promises eternal life to those who believe, while the rest will perish, die, cease to exist.
It seems to me a person would need eternal life to burn forever.
1 John 5:12-13
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
NKJV
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29 Jul 14
3 edits
Most of this debate revolves around Revelation 20:10...If Revelation 20:10 is coming to your mind as an apparent contradiction, that’s great—it should. It speaks of the Devil and a couple of his henchman being thrown in the lake of fire and being “tormented day and night forever and ever.”
When we look at the word eternal we see that in certain places it is set in opposite contrast to something temporary or momentary. That which lasts without end is set in contrast to that which is of time with termination.
1.) "While we look not at the things which are seen but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal, [lasting but for a time] but the things which are not seen are ETERNAL." (2 Cor. 4:18)
2.)"For we know if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, ETERNAL in the heavens." (2 Cor. 5:1)
3.) "For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever, not as a servant, but above a servant, a beloved brother." (Philem. 15)
That which is temporary, for a season, and momentary expresses TIME which is bounded. In contrast to these is "eternal" or "for ever".
Reasonings that "eternal" ALSO means temporary when it comes to "eternal punishment" (Matt. 25:46) or "eternal God" (Romans 16:26) are not reliable.
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30 Jul 14
Originally posted by sonshipI suggest that perhaps you are using these verses out of context. Perish means perish, nothing "eternal" involved here.Most of this debate revolves around Revelation 20:10...If Revelation 20:10 is coming to your mind as an apparent contradiction, that’s great—it should. It speaks of the Devil and a couple of his henchman being thrown in the lake of fire and being “tormented day and night forever and ever.”
When we look at the word [b]eternal we see t ...[text shortened]... ]"eternal punishment" (Matt. 25:46)[/b] or "eternal God" (Romans 16:26) are not reliable.[/b]
Your assumption is based on Greek Mythology of the "eternal soul" which is also not found in scripture.
Soul is merely breath life, when it is gone, it is gone. It ceases to exist. Animals have a soul, breath life. Do they go on "living after death" as well?
Believers are the only humans given eternal life at the new birth. Even then, it is their spirit, God's gift of holy spirit that lives forever, with a new body, of course.
30 Jul 14
Originally posted by sonshipThe Bible says a couple dozen times that the punishment for sin is death, never is torment the word used. I guess your 'Book of Lee" says something differentMost of this debate revolves around Revelation 20:10...If Revelation 20:10 is coming to your mind as an apparent contradiction, that’s great—it should. It speaks of the Devil and a couple of his henchman being thrown in the lake of fire and being “tormented day and night forever and ever.”
When we look at the word [b]eternal we see t ...[text shortened]... ]"eternal punishment" (Matt. 25:46)[/b] or "eternal God" (Romans 16:26) are not reliable.[/b]
Torment is only prescribed for Satan/Devil and his followers.
30 Jul 14
Originally posted by checkbaiterI would agree with most of that except the Bible and Christ in particular noted that there was a difference between body and soul. The soul or the life force goes back to God from whence it came. Hence you cannot say it ceases to exist. God will then decide how and when to deal with that soul. Certainly death of the soul is the eventual end to those who are unworthy of eternal life.
I suggest that perhaps you are using these verses out of context. Perish means perish, nothing "eternal" involved here.
Your assumption is based on Greek Mythology of the "eternal soul" which is also not found in scripture.
Soul is merely breath life, when it is gone, it is gone. It ceases to exist. Animals have a soul, breath life. Do they go on "liv ...[text shortened]... n, it is their spirit, God's gift of holy spirit that lives forever, with a new body, of course.
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30 Jul 14
Originally posted by Rajk999You can believe whatever you want, my bible says the spirit go's back to God.
I would agree with most of that except the Bible and Christ in particular noted that there was a difference between body and soul. The soul or the life force goes back to God from whence it came. Hence you cannot say it ceases to exist. God will then decide how and when to deal with that soul. Certainly death of the soul is the eventual end to those who are unworthy of eternal life.
30 Jul 14
Originally posted by divegeesterEveryone whose names are not in the book of life will be cast into the lake
Let's start again then. What part of the below do think is not biblical truth:
Those who are not Christian will be cast into a lake of fire and burned for all eternity in torment and agony.
of fire. What happens there is debatable personally, I think they will be
there forever, since those that are saved by Christ live forever, not liking
that idea isn't an argument against it, so in my opinion they are there
forever.
Kelly
30 Jul 14
Originally posted by sonshipPlease explain how you can justify your assumption that death is actually not death but "existence"?Is the second death, death? Or is it eternal life of burning in hell?
It is an existence. But it is not called life. It is called [b]the second death.[/b]
Please also explain how this "distance" is not eternal when you are claiming that eternal suffering is scriptural?
Do you see the error and contradiction yet?
30 Jul 14
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterDeath is usually defined as the loss of life. Death does not have to mean complete annihilation. There are many things that are considered dead, but remain in existence. We make houses from dead trees. A rock is dead and exists, and therefore, some evolutionists believe it can come to life.
Please explain how you can justify your assumption that death is actually not death but "existence"?
Please also explain how this "distance" is not eternal when you are claiming that eternal suffering is scriptural?
Do you see the error and contradiction yet?