"I know there is no God"

@fmf said
And you claim to KNOW this or is it something that you BELIEVE is true?

It's written in non-religious Roman and Jewish historic records also besides the Bible.

@kingdavid403 said
It's written in non-religious Roman and Jewish historic records also besides the Bible.

Not contemporaneous "records", no. It's not. Even the New Testament was written decades after the events supposedly happened and the writer of most of it never even met its main protagonist.

@kingdavid403 said
Jesus was "murdered"?
Yes, by the Jews and Romans.

The Romans killed Jesus as a perceived political threat. Do the Gospels state that he was "murdered"?

@fmf said
I am not sure exactly what you mean by "spiritual happening" but if you are referring to it being divinely directed or an accurate account of supernatural phenomena, then I do not have any reason to believe that the writing of the Bible was a "spiritual happening". I am not claiming that I KNOW this to be so.

The Gospels of Mathew and John were written by eye witnesses; who were Mathew and John. Luke was written by other eyewitness accounts given to Luke for his Gospel; same with Mark. The writings of the Gospels happened fairly quickly after the death and resurrection of Jesus. Much of Paul's writings were written decades later and the New Testament was not put together for well over 100 years after Jesus. However, they still had many parts of these books and writings to study and worship by.

@fmf said
The Romans killed Jesus as a perceived political threat. Do the Gospels state that he was "murdered"?

The Romans killed Jesus as a perceived political threat.
No they did not. Read the Gospels again. The Romans wanted to let Him go because He had done nothing wrong. It's in every Gospel; and Roman non-religious historical writings. The Jews then began to riot yelling "Crucify Him" Crucify Him" so the Romans did after the Roman governor washed his hands and said the blood of Jesus was on their hands and not his. They then murdered him on the cross.
Do the Gospels state that he was "murdered"?
Yes, they describe in great detail how they did it too.

@kingdavid403 said
The Gospels of Mathew and John were written by eye witnesses; who were Mathew and John. Luke was written by other eyewitness accounts given to Luke for his Gospel; same with Mark. The writings of the Gospels happened fairly quickly after the death and resurrection of Jesus. Much of Paul's writings were written decades later and the New Testament was not put together f ...[text shortened]... fter Jesus. However, they still had many parts of these books and writings to study and worship by.

I accept that this is what you believe.

@fmf said
I accept that this is what you believe.

I accept that this is what you believe.
Well it's written history; I guess one can believe written history or not. Maybe World War Two or WWI never happened since I was not there and cannot prove that it really happened because it's only written about in written history.
I accept that you do not believe.

@kingdavid403 said
I accept that this is what you believe.
Well it's written history; I guess one can believe written history or not.

I beg to differ. I would say they are claims that are made about the historicity of writings rather than "written history".

@kingdavid403 said
Maybe World War Two or WWI never happened since I was not there and cannot prove that it really happened because it's only written about in written history.

There are incredible amounts of "written history" about WW1 and WW2, for example, that are inaccurate. The fact that people wrote things and claimed that their writing were"historical" does not mean much, in and of itself.

@kingdavid403 said
The Romans killed Jesus as a perceived political threat.
No they did not. Read the Gospels again.

What I have said IS based on reading the Gospels. For what it's worth, I think that most Biblical scholars and historians of that period, nowadays, would agree that the Romans killed Jesus because he was a perceived political threat. Their agreement doesn't mean that I outsource my responsibility for what I believe to them, but it is, at the very least, an intellectual context to a discussion of the history of these events.

@kingdavid403 said
Do the Gospels state that he was "murdered"?
Yes, they describe in great detail how they did it too.

I am not talking about how his execution is "described". And I know how you and other Christians characterize what happened to Jesus but if he was "murdered" then, of course, the gospels would state that he was "murdered".

@kingdavid403 said
The Romans were trying to stop the riot and nothing else.

Jesus was put to death by the Romans because the Jews began to riot for Jesus saying that He was the Son of God and The King of the Jews. I don't think that falls under sedition. The Romans were trying to stop the riot and nothing else.

Jesus said he was the "Son of God" and the "King of the Jews", he had a large following in and around the provincial capital, and there was rioting. I see. It sounds like the Romans saw him as a political threat, then.

@fmf said
What I have said IS based on reading the Gospels. For what it's worth, I think that most Biblical scholars and historians of that period, nowadays, would agree that the Romans killed Jesus because he was a perceived political threat. Their agreement doesn't mean that I outsource my responsibility for what I believe to them, but it is, at the very least, an intellectual context to a discussion of the history of these events.

Well you're wrong. The Jews found Jesus a threat to their Theocracy. The Romans were not threatened by Jesus what so ever. The rest is written in all four Gospels in the Bible. They re also written in all the Gospels that didn't make it into the Bible.
I think that most Biblical scholars and historians of that period, nowadays, would agree that the Romans killed Jesus because he was a perceived political threat.
No, none think this that I have studied; which is most of them. You sure think that you're an expert on Jesus and the Bible for a non-believing atheist; interesting.

@fmf said
Jesus was put to death by the Romans because the Jews began to riot for Jesus saying that He was the Son of God and The King of the Jews. I don't think that falls under sedition. The Romans were trying to stop the riot and nothing else.

Jesus said he was the "Son of God" and the "King of the Jews", he had a large following in and around the provincial capital, and there was rioting. I see. It sounds like the Romans saw him as a political threat, then.

[John 18:28-38 NKJV] 28 Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover. 29 Pilate then went out to them and said, "What accusation do you bring against this Man?" 30 They answered and said to him, "If He were not an evildoer, we would not have delivered Him up to you." 31 [b]Then Pilate said to them, "You take Him and judge Him according to your law." Therefore the Jews said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death," 32 that the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled which He spoke, signifying by what death He would die. 33 Then Pilate entered the Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to Him, "Are You the King of the Jews?" 34 Jesus answered him, "Are you speaking for yourself about this, or did others tell you this concerning Me?" 35 Pilate answered, "Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have You done?" 36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here." 37 Pilate therefore said to Him, "Are You a king then?" Jesus answered, "You say [rightly] that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice." 38 Pilate said to Him, "What is truth?" And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, "I find no fault in Him at all.
[John 19:1-16 NKJV] 1 So then Pilate took Jesus and scourged [Him]. 2 And the soldiers twisted a crown of thorns and put [it] on His head, and they put on Him a purple robe. 3 Then they said, "Hail, King of the Jews!" And they struck Him with their hands. 4 Pilate then went out again, and said to them, "Behold, I am bringing Him out to you, that you may know that I find no fault in Him." 5 Then Jesus came out, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. And [Pilate] said to them, "Behold the Man!" 6 Therefore, when the chief priests and officers saw Him, they cried out, saying, "Crucify [Him], crucify [Him]!" Pilate said to them, "You take Him and crucify [Him], for I find no fault in Him." 7 The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and according to our law He ought to die, because He made Himself the Son of God." 8 Therefore, when Pilate heard that saying, he was the more afraid, 9 and went again into the Praetorium, and said to Jesus, "Where are You from?" But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 Then Pilate said to Him, "Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?" 11 Jesus answered, "You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin." 12 From then on Pilate sought to release Him, but the Jews cried out, saying, "If you let this Man go, you are not Caesar's friend. Whoever makes himself a king speaks against Caesar." 13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus out and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called [The] Pavement, but in Hebrew, Gabbatha. 14 Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, "Behold your King!" 15 But they cried out, "Away with [Him], away with [Him]! Crucify Him!" Pilate said to them, "Shall I crucify your King?" The chief priests answered, "We have no king but Caesar!" 16 Then he delivered Him to them to be crucified. So they took Jesus and led [Him] away.
Fairly self-explanatory. You're wrong. Please share with us which Bible Scholars are wrong also. 🙂