12 Mar 19
@moonbus saidDo I correctly surmise that you have become disenchanted [sic] with the dogma and ‘fairy tale’ aspect of Christianity
Do I correctly surmise that you have become disenchanted [sic] with the dogma and ‘fairy tale’ aspect of Christianity
This is not how I'd put it.
I became unconvinced of its sources. Its credibility. Its authorship. The purposes of its authors. I realized I had stopped believing that there was anything "divine" about it.
Now that I am out, "the dogma and ‘fairy tale’ aspect of Christianity", as you put it, does not stand up well to scrutiny, at least according to my 'refreshed' eyes.
and you want to see what can still be salvaged of religion without those elements?
I am not trying to salvage anything, as such, but elements of it still have a bearing on my moral compass and always will. That's not a conscious retention or salvaging of anything
Hence, drifting towards deistic, non-denominational, non-dogmatic religion?
I don't see myself as drifting toward a "religion" of any kind ~ more a "perspective" ~ but we may be just dealing with different definitions here. For it to be a "religion" - to my way of thinking - it would have to necessitate some sort of action on my part [things like obedience, worship] and/or belief in some extraordinary consequence of my belief [like afterlife].
12 Mar 19
1 edit
@fmf saidIn any case, a profound personal re-orientation. Be aware, be alert. Doubt and questioning are quickening experiences, not to be rushed through in order to arrive at some stasis. Stasis is stagnation.
Do I correctly surmise that you have become disenchanted [sic] with the dogma and ‘fairy tale’ aspect of Christianity
This is not how I'd put it.
I became unconvinced of its sources. Its credibility. Its authorship. The purposes of its authors. I realized I had stopped believing that there was anything "divine" about it.
Now that I am out, "the dogma and ‘fairy t ...[text shortened]... e obedience, worship] and/or belief in some extraordinary consequence of my belief [like afterlife].
What if the extraordinary consequence of a new perspective were that your life, here and now, became informed by meaning and purpose, irrespective of any promise of a hereafter? Would that suffice?
EDIT: encourage the process without preconceived ideas where it might take you.
12 Mar 19
1 edit
@fmf saidI see, so it would help give you a kind of peace of mind because you have trouble believing it all to be random chance but at the same time being noncommittal regarding a real God.
How I live my life? It wouldn't.
But the interesting question of where did we come from would be taken care of.
@secondson saidJust because he may call himself a 'deist' doesn't mean YOUR deity. He may worship a Rhesus monkey as god for all you know.
But if, as you say, you might be realizing you're a deist, then that infers a prime mover, which in turn means that the human condition must be understood relative to the nature of that deity.
A standard with regards to both the physical universe and things "supernatural" must be acknowledged.
The "prime mover" makes the rules. The violation of those rules has consequences. Ex post facto logic.
12 Mar 19
@suzianne saidYes, and when moonbus said exactly the same thing a few posts ago, I agreed with him.
Far more interesting is the question of where are we going.
However, to that end, I think it's more important to try to understand the human condition [and "where we are going" collectively, as a species] rather than to worry about the notion of "going" on to an afterlife, as religious people do.
@whodey saidNo, not really. I am not really discussing "trouble" or "peace of mind" here.
I see, so it would help give you a kind of peace of mind because you have trouble believing it all to be random chance but at the same time being noncommittal regarding a real God.
But if your reference to "a real God" - according to the mass religious movement you happen to have subscribed to [about which, as you know full well, I am not "noncommital"] ~ if it brings you "peace of mind" then that's nice for you.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29597
12 Mar 19
@moonbus saidWhen I said FMF started as a theist I didn't mean from birth. (Have argued previously that everyone is born an atheist). My point was merely to highlight that he wasn't on a one-way journey from atheism to theism (moving from darkness to light) as had already been a theist in the past and moved away from it).
No one starts as a theist; atheism is the default position.
So far as I know, FMF did not aririve at theism through logic, faulty or otherwise, but by upbringing and lack of exposure to alternatives. FMF will correct me if I misrepresent his case.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29597
12 Mar 19
@sonship saidDepends. Is your computer mouse sentient?
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Is my computer mouse an atheist ?
12 Mar 19
@fmf saidI think I have understood you perfectly well. I think the misunderstanding is on your part. After all you did say you're not sure in your OP.
I don't think you have properly read or understood what I have revealed about myself on this thread or what I have said on pretty much any thread that has touched upon my agnosticism over the last year while you have been active. If you say something a bit more on target, I will engage it.
You said, "I might be realizing I'm a deist".
Why?
Once upon a time you thought you were a Christian. I'm assuming you then realized you were an atheist, then subsequently realized you were an agnostic atheist.
Now you're saying you might be a theist.
I'm not having a problem understanding anything, but apparently you are.
Gimme a break will you? Figure out the truth about what you are and stick to your guns. What's with all this wishy washy 'I might be realizing I'm something or another'? 😉
12 Mar 19
@proper-knob saidBut you do? You're goofy. 😋
What a load of tosh. You don’t get to decide what deism is you nutter.
12 Mar 19
@secondson saidI have already explained.
You said, "I might be realizing I'm a deist".
Why?
12 Mar 19
1 edit
@secondson saidYou've got it wrong.
Once upon a time you thought you were a Christian. I'm assuming you then realized you were an atheist, then subsequently realized you were an agnostic atheist.
There's no need for you to be "assuming".
You should just read what I have posted.