Originally posted by Grampy BobbyPerhaps, the unknown.
He made provision so that no one need 'fry'. Focus in heaven will be on Christ. Horizontal comparisons seem to hold appeal. Do you know what the single greatest human fear happens to be? Googling won't help. I'll reply when I see it posted.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyIsolation. Being alone. This must surpass even death because many humans attempt suicide every year. For them, death is preferable to what they already have. For many elderly, it is being alone that drives them to this endgame.
He made provision so that no one need 'fry'. Focus in heaven will be on Christ. Horizontal comparisons seem to hold appeal. Do you know what the single greatest human fear happens to be? Googling won't help. I'll reply when I see it posted.
http://www.gospelwarriors.org/man%27s_greatest_fear.htm
Faith in the Son of God for Eternal Life matters to God. God sent His Son to be the Savior of the world.
There is a song for Christians to sing: Faith is the Victory
King James Version
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Romans 4: 14-16
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For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Romans 3: 23-31
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For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 4: 1-3
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What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
The end reason why people go to hell and/or the Lake of Fire according to the bible is because of unbelief in Christ as Savior. If a person is faulty and born in sin and continues to not believe in Christ for eternal life, then who is to blame?
Is it the one who refuses to put faith in Christ, or is it the One who sent Christ to be the Savior for all men?
Is it the one who makes the choice not to put faith in Christ, or the One who offers eternal life in His Son?
If God offers eternal life, and we reject that eternal life, then why should God be to blame for our suffering in eternity? Christ suffered for us, died, rose again, and ascended back to God, so how can we blame God or our unbelief?
How can we expect to do good and gain eternal life and yet reject God's offer of eternal life because Christ paid for our sins and offers eternal life in Himself?
Swiss Gambit,
Do you think that God blames us for being born in Sin? Or does God blame us for not putting faith in Christ for eternal life? God wants sinners to have fellowship with Him. So, why do you think that God blames us so much that he will just not have anything more to do with us?
Hasn't He provided a way for men, women, boys and girls to be saved? So, God doesn't ultimately make sinners suffer eternally in the lake of fire for sin, but for unbelief. God wants us to have fellowship with Him.
Originally posted by KingOnPointMaking someone suffer for unbelief is illogical, since we cannot choose what we believe.
Swiss Gambit,
Do you think that God blames us for being born in Sin? Or does God blame us for not putting faith in Christ for eternal life? God wants sinners to have fellowship with Him. So, why do you think that God blames us so much that he will just not have anything more to do with us?
Hasn't He provided a way for men, women, boys and girls to ...[text shortened]... rnally in the lake of fire for sin, but for unbelief. God wants us to have fellowship with Him.
Originally posted by SwissGambitNot so much illogical, as just plain cruel. In fact, I would argue that making anyone suffer without a goal in mind, is cruel. If there is no purpose for the suffering then it is cruel, if there is a purpose, then does anyone know what that purpose is. Most theists suggest the suffering is as a result of something, but that is not a purpose.
Making someone suffer for unbelief is illogical, since we cannot choose what we believe.
Originally posted by KingOnPointI am curious as to where exactly the Bible says this . people go to hell because of unbelief in Christ. Im not saying its not there. I suspect you are misinterpreting the passage.
The end reason why people go to hell and/or the Lake of Fire according to the bible is because of unbelief in Christ as Savior. ..
So far you are atrocious at answering questions and provided references for what you say. You are good at providing irrelevant references and fluff to make your posts seem substantial. It seems you have a bunch of passages that you copy and paste at random without considering their relevance.
This is insulting to those who know the Bible. Maybe you can make amends and stop yourself from looking like a silly teenager.
Originally posted by Rajk999John 3:16-18
I am curious as to where exactly the Bible says this . people go to hell because of unbelief in Christ. Im not saying its not there. I suspect you are misinterpreting the passage.
So far you are atrocious at answering questions and provided references for what you say. You are good at providing irrelevant references and fluff to make your posts see ...[text shortened]... know the Bible. Maybe you can make amends and stop yourself from looking like a silly teenager.
New King James Version (NKJV)
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI'll stick with my choice of words. But I agree; it is also cruel to punish someone with no end in sight, with no rehabilitation in sight, and no aim to prevent anyone from being wronged by the criminal in the future.
Not so much illogical, as just plain cruel. In fact, I would argue that making anyone suffer without a goal in mind, is cruel. If there is no purpose for the suffering then it is cruel, if there is a purpose, then does anyone know what that purpose is. Most theists suggest the suffering is as a result of something, but that is not a purpose.
Originally posted by twhitehead'Do I not feel shame for leaving Islam and becoming a Christian?' To which I unhesitantly answer No! Why? Because what I was before was, according to God's judgement, an enemy of God. This is due to my sinful thoughts, words and deeds, which are all fruits of my sinful nature. God, who is infinitely holy and upright and whose eyes cannot look upon evil, nor can He leave this evil completely undealt with, has declared himself to be a God of justice and the One who must punish those who do sin, and that we all are by nature the children of wrath under His just judgement and eternal damnation.
Not so much illogical, as just plain cruel. In fact, I would argue that making anyone suffer without a goal in mind, is cruel. If there is no purpose for the suffering then it is cruel, if there is a purpose, then does anyone know what that purpose is. Most theists suggest the suffering is as a result of something, but that is not a purpose.
However, God has also revealed himself to be a 'gracious and compassionate God, One who is slow to anger and abounds in steadfast love and faithfulness' (Ex. 34:6) and who does not delight in the death of the wicked, (Ezek 18:23). Therefore, He has, on His own initiative, instigated a plan of redemption, whereby His justice may be fully honoured, vindicated and satisfied and his mercy clearly and publicly demonstrated. This plan is commonly referred to as the Gospel of God, (Rom 1:3), or the 'Good News' and has as been accomplished through the righteous life, the atoning death, the miraculous resurrection and the glorious ascension of the 'only mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men,' (1 Timothy 2:5-6)." -Adel Mohammed El Naggar Thread 158085
Originally posted by wolfgang59He respects human volition and never coerces it.... "if" Koine Third Class Conditional: Maybe it's true that you will; maybe
What god wants, god gets.
(Omnipotence)
it's false that you will accept His free gift of salvation through faith in Christ. Omnipotence and human volition co-exist.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyWhich makes him, as described, cruel.
He respects human volition and never coerces ......
To avoid the charge of cruelty, he would have to either:
Ensure that a humans volition is based on an informed choice - in which case they would never choose to suffer.
or
Coerce humans who choose wrongly (due to lack of an informed choice).
Originally posted by twhiteheadOriginally posted by twhitehead
Which makes him, as described, cruel.
To avoid the charge of cruelty, he would have to either:
Ensure that a humans volition is based on an informed choice - in which case they would never choose to suffer.
or
Coerce humans who choose wrongly (due to lack of an informed choice).
Which makes him, as described, cruel.
To avoid the charge of cruelty, he would have to either:
Ensure that a humans volition is based on an informed choice - in which case they would never choose to suffer.
or
Coerce humans who choose wrongly (due to lack of an informed choice).
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Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Human Options At a Glance" (OP) Thread 156873
#1. God: O "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name [person] of the only begotten [uniquely born] Son of God." (John 3:16-18)
Human Beings: (?) Who are we? Why are we here? Where are we going? How will we get there?
#2. God: O
Person A. Positive Volition at God Consciousness: (+V) If you're up there, God, I'd like to know you.
Person B. Negative Volition at God Consciousness: (-V) Whether there's a god or not, I'm not interested.
#3. God: O The only issue for eternal relationship with God is a person's attitude toward the Person of Jesus Christ, God’s Perfect Gift. "What do you think about the Christ?" Matthew 22: 42
Person A. Positive Volition at Gospel Hearing (+V) "Believe in the Lord Jesus
and you shall be saved." (Acts 16:31a)... Father, I believe in Jesus Christ.
Person A. Negative Volition at Gospel Hearing (-V) "Believe in the Lord Jesus
and you shall be saved. "No thanks; I think I'll just live my life without god.
"But a natural man [unbeliever] does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them [the Gospel and Bible doctrine], because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14) "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey [the command to believe in] the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." John 3:36
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Originally posted by Proper Knob (Page 6)
"Have a stab Gramps, you couldn't do much worse than Suzianne.
"So how does one discern between 'Real Faith' and, I guess, 'Fake Faith'?" -Proper Knob
Faith: "Noun. Strong belief or trust in someone or something." Merriam-Webster; "Complete trust or confidence in someone or something." Oxford Dictionaries; "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1; "And the Lord said, If you had faith as a grain of mustard seed..." Luke 17:6 (Little more than none at all)
Even at our best, none of us can ever earn or deserve a relationship with God. Only the object of faith, Jesus Christ, has merit. An individual's faith in the person and work of Christ (His substitutionary spiritual death or separation from the Father at the crucifixion) makes personal salvation possible. What is that "faith"? Faith is simply your decision to believe (accept, receive) the message of Christ as true. Faith alone in Christ alone is salvation. Attitude toward Christ is the only issue.
Mechanics: 1) At a point in time, an unbeliever expresses personal interest in the Message of Christ; 2) God the Holy Spirit acts in place of the human spirit to make the spiritual phenomena of the Gospel (Good News of the completed work of the Risen Christ) understandable to that unbeliever; 3) If he or she then responds to God the Father by simply forming words in his or her own mind: Father, I believe in Christ, the Holy Spirit immediately makes that faith effective for salvation.
1 Corinthians 2:14 explains this spiritual phenomena: "But a natural man [unbeliever] does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them [the Gospel and Bible Doctrine] because they are spiritually discerned [appraised from the human spirit, which is acquired at the moment of regeneration].
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe in the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." John 3:36 The phrase "Real Faith and Fake Faith" represents a distinction without a difference. -Bob