Is Jesus Willing?

Originally posted by sonship
ThinkOfOne,

There are [b]10 verses in First John chapter 1.
Which are the wrapped mythological verses?
Which are the non-mythological ones?

There are 29 verses in First John chapter 2.
Which are the wrapped mythological verses?
Which are the non-mythological ones?

There are 24 verses in First John c ...[text shortened]... us which are the "core" non-mythical verses and which are the "wrapped around" mythical verses.

Perhaps you'll be able to understand the words that follow:

"In the teachings of Christ, religion is completely present tense: Jesus is the prototype and our task is to imitate him, become a disciple. But then through Paul came a basic alteration. Paul draws attention away from imitating Christ and fixes attention on the death of Christ The Atoner. What Martin Luther. in his reformation, failed to realize is that even before Catholicism, Christianity had become degenerate at the hands of Paul. Paul made Christianity the religion of Paul, not of Christ. Paul threw the Christianity of Christ away, completely turning it upside down. making it just the opposite of the original proclamation of Christ"
----- Soren Kierkegaard

"Paul....did not desire to know Christ....Paul shows us with what complete indifference the earthly life of Jesus was regarded....What is the significance for our faith and for our religious life, the fact that the Gospel of Paul is different from the Gospel of Jesus?....The attitude which Paul himself takes up towards the Gospel of Jesus is that he does not repeat it in the words of Jesus, and does not appeal to its authority....The fateful thing is that the Greek, the Catholic, and the Protestant theologies all contain the Gospel of Paul in a form which does not continue the Gospel of Jesus, but displaces it."
---- Albert Schweitzer

"Among the sayings and discourses imputed to [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence: and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being. I separate therefore the gold from the dross; restore to him the former, and leave the latter to the stupidity of some, and roguery of others of his disciples. Of this band of dupes and impostors, Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus.
---- Thomas Jefferson

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Perhaps you'll be able to understand the words that follow:

"In the teachings of Christ, religion is completely present tense: Jesus is the prototype and our task is to imitate him, become a disciple. But then through Paul came a basic alteration. Paul draws attention away from imitating Christ and fixes attention on the death of Christ The Ato ...[text shortened]... at Coryphaeus, and first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus.
---- Thomas Jefferson

I have to say that the apparent disagreement between the doctrines of Paul and Christ, are a not real. They are in the minds of Christians who focus on faith only. I have given several examples of this in previous threads.

In short the problem is that Paul needed to start from basics to explain certain things to the Gentiles. Christians dont read all Paul says and they similarly stop at faith as well, ignoring the part about righteousness and good works.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I have to say that the apparent disagreement between the doctrines of Paul and Christ, are a not real. They are in the minds of Christians who focus on faith only. I have given several examples of this in previous threads.

In short the problem is that Paul needed to start from basics to explain certain things to the Gentiles. Christians dont read all Paul ...[text shortened]... and they similarly stop at faith as well, ignoring the part about righteousness and good works.

You've certainly seem to have made a much better case than the "faith alone" adherents over the years. It's truly remarkable that they keep accusing you of "ignoring" scripture, when you might be the only one on this site that actually seems to try to consider all of scripture in deciding on the meaning. If anything, they are the ones who "ignore" scripture that disagrees with their beliefs.

That said, Paul was like a politician who speaks out both sides of his mouth. That and he taught things that are inconsistent with the underlying concepts of the doctrine of Jesus. As such, on the whole his doctrine bears little resemblance to that of Jesus.

.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You've certainly seem to have made a much better case than the "faith alone" adherents over the years. It's truly remarkable that they keep accusing you of "ignoring" scripture, when you might be the only one on this site that actually seems to try to consider all of scripture in deciding on the meaning. If anything, they are the ones who "ignore" scriptu ...[text shortened]... ne of Jesus. As such, on the whole his doctrine bears little resemblance to that of Jesus.

.

Yes , this thing called indoctrination is very dangerous. Faith alone is for deathbed confessions. I guess many of them aspire to be like the thief on the cross 🙂

Originally posted by Rajk999
Yes , this thing called indoctrination is very dangerous. Faith alone is for deathbed confessions. I guess many of them aspire to be like the thief on the cross 🙂

Those who believe as you describe are just as deceived as you.

Originally posted by Eladar
Those who believe as you describe are just as deceived as you.

References... you got any?

Originally posted by Rajk999
References... you got any?

The comment is self evident for those with eyes. No amount of explanation will help the blind to see.

Originally posted by Eladar
The comment is self evident for those with eyes. No amount of explanation will help the blind to see.

I guess you got nothing concrete to offer then.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I guess you got nothing concrete to offer then.

Nothing that you would see as truth. The blind are blind.

Originally posted by Eladar
Nothing that you would see as truth. The blind are blind.

Blind is not so bad. Stupid is worse.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne

Perhaps you'll be able to understand the words that follow:

Interesting quotations from Soren, Albert, and Thomas. But my request to YOU is this:

Which are the wrapped mythological verses?
Which are the non-mythological ones?

Of the 10 verses in First John chapter 1.
Of the 29 verses in First John chapter 2.
Of the 24 verses in First John chapter 3.
Of the 21 verses in First John chapter 4.
Of the 21 verses in First John chapter 5.

SPECIFICS please.

Originally posted by sonship

Perhaps you'll be able to understand the words that follow:

Interesting quotations from Soren, Albert, and Thomas. But my request to [b] YOU is this:

Which are the wrapped mythological verses?
Which are the non-mythological ones?

Of the 10 verses in First John chapter 1.
Of the 29 verses in First Joh ...[text shortened]... n First John chapter 4.
Of the 21 verses in First John chapter 5.

SPECIFICS please.[/b]

I understood what you were asking.

If you had better reading comprehension skills, you'd be able to determine on your own which are part of the mythology and which aren't. Unfortunately you still seem to have too much pride to do anything about improving your skills.

As I said earlier:

You repeatedly demonstrate that you struggle to understand what people tell you. It's as if you take what they say, then create a narrative in your head that is often very different from their actual words. You then believe that you understand their words when, in fact, you only understand the narrative that you made up in your head. As I recall, over the years a number of people have, in various ways, pointed this out to you.

That you do the same with scripture is of no surprise.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I understood what you were asking.

If you had better reading comprehension skills, you'd be able to determine on your own which are part of the mythology and which aren't. Unfortunately you still seem to have too much pride to do anything about improving your skills.

As I said earlier:

You repeatedly demonstrate that you struggle to understa ...[text shortened]... ys, pointed this out to you.

That you do the same with scripture is of no surprise.

So you're going to duck out and play the "reading comprehension" card.

I would be more impressed with your breakdown of the reliable text of First John and the wrapped around embellishment texts of mythology - verse by verse or phrase by phrase. Or however YOU discriminate the real thing from the wrapped around mythology.

Work on it.

Originally posted by sonship
So you're going to duck out and play the "reading comprehension" card.

I would be more impressed with your breakdown of the reliable text of [b]First John and the wrapped around embellishment texts of mythology - verse by verse or phrase by phrase. Or however YOU discriminate the real thing from the wrapped around mythology.

Work on it.[/b]

You certainly are prideful.

If you had better reading comprehension skills, you'd be able to determine on your own which are part of the mythology and which aren't. Unfortunately you still seem to have too much pride to do anything about improving your skills.

Ah yes. Reading comprehension skills and GREAT pride are in my way.

Start with just one chapter - chapter one.

Was this first verse a wrap around mythology or the reliable un-mythology core?

First John 1:1

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we beheld and our hands handled concerning the Word of life ...."

Authentic Apostle John or wrapped around mythology ?