Is sin a real thing?

@kellyjay said
How is the qualification of evil done if it isn't doing good for selfish reasons? Why wouldn't the motivation of the heart not qualify to be evil if actions are not also put forward merely for lack of opportunity or fear of consequences, if things presented themselves you think merely thinking alone would be all that happens. If the evil we do starts in the heart before the ...[text shortened]... s came to save sinners when He was here last time not condemn them, that will not be true next time.

why wouldn't contemplating an evil act being done on an innocent any less evil if the act is not carried out due to self-interest? Wouldn't the thought of acting in an evil manner alone also harm the one thinking of actually doing it?



If you wish to believe that you are fundamentally flawed and evil by nature because you have occasional stray thoughts of harming people, I would not presume to try to convince you otherwise. However, if you find that such thoughts are not merely occasional, but pervasive, and you feel you might actually harm others (or have already done so), then may I suggest you seek a therapist (rather than a priest)? Impulse control is something most people learn by age 6, but some people need a 'refresher' later on.

@moonbus said
why wouldn't contemplating an evil act being done on an innocent any less evil if the act is not carried out due to self-interest? Wouldn't the thought of acting in an evil manner alone also harm the one thinking of actually doing it?



If you wish to believe that you are fundamentally flawed and evil by nature because you have occasional stray thoughts of harming ...[text shortened]... mpulse control is something most people learn by age 6, but some people need a 'refresher' later on.

If you take it for granted that having evil thoughts are simply a normal part of humanity what are you saying about humanity? Evil is a departure of good simply seeing it in unmistakable evil deeds and only acknowledging those as evil masks all sorts of things that are more well hidden and under the surface but there nonetheless.

@kellyjay said
If you take it for granted that having evil thoughts are simply a normal part of humanity what are you saying about humanity? Evil is a departure of good simply seeing it in unmistakable evil deeds and only acknowledging those as evil masks all sorts of things that are more well hidden and under the surface but there nonetheless.

Thoughts are not evil. Actions are. Imagination is an essential component of a healthy functioning psyche. A person who never harbors thoughts or fantasies about harming other people is not a good person. That would be a cognitively stunted imbecile. imagining bad things happening to people is part of a moral upbringing, part of how compassion actually works upon the psyche and one of the chief checks against actually doing bad things to people.

@kellyjay said
If you take it for granted that having evil thoughts are simply a normal part of humanity what are you saying about humanity?

It says that the vast majority of humanity's members don't do "evil" things, regardless of what their thoughts may or may not have been.

@kellyjay said
Evil is a departure of good simply seeing it in unmistakable evil deeds and only acknowledging those as evil masks all sorts of things that are more well hidden and under the surface but there nonetheless.

No one is denying that are "evil" people who do "evil" things in the world.

@kellyjay said
Evil is a departure of good simply seeing it in unmistakable evil deeds and only acknowledging those as evil masks all sorts of things that are more well hidden and under the surface but there nonetheless.

If you are revealing that you engage in "evil" acts that are "well hidden and under the surface but there", then I do not wish to know. I hope I don't end up seeing you on your local TV bring carted away in zip ties.

@moonbus said
Thoughts are not evil. Actions are. Imagination is an essential component of a healthy functioning psyche. A person who never harbors thoughts or fantasies about harming other people is not a good person. That would be a cognitively stunted imbecile. imagining bad things happening to people is part of a moral upbringing, part of how compassion actually works upon the psyche and one of the chief checks against actually doing bad things to people.

Thoughts are as much a part of you as everything else, you ponder how to respond, you make judgment calls, you direct your life. You are telling me that your thought life means nothing?

@kellyjay said
Thoughts are as much a part of you as everything else, you ponder how to respond, you make judgment calls, you direct your life. You are telling me that your thought life means nothing?

Of course not. I exercise impulse control; I don’t act out every thought. I act with circumspection and regard for my fellow man.

@fmf said
It says that the vast majority of humanity's members don't do "evil" things, regardless of what their thoughts may or may not have been.

I would go a bit further. I suspect that if even one third of the human race were as rapacious as KJ seems to think they are, we wouldn’t be here; our ancestors would have extincted themselves before they left Olduvai Gorge to explore Europe.

@moonbus said
Of course not. I exercise impulse control; I don’t act out every thought. I act with circumspection and regard for my fellow man.

I do to and everyone also does that to a degree, and if we justify ourselves into doing something another finds disagreeable or out and out wrong that started with our thought life.

@moonbus said
I would go a bit further. I suspect that if even one third of the human race were as rapacious as KJ seems to think they are, we wouldn’t be here; our ancestors would have extincted themselves before they left Olduvai Gorge to explore Europe.

Well we have killed off millions at a time in several time periods and doing so in the most gruesome manners.

@kellyjay said
I do to and everyone also does that to a degree, and if we justify ourselves into doing something another finds disagreeable or out and out wrong that started with our thought life.

Do you find yourself justifying doing harm to others?

@kellyjay said
I do to and everyone also does that to a degree, and if we justify ourselves into doing something another finds disagreeable or out and out wrong that started with our thought life.

"Doing something another finds disagreeable or out and out wrong" is one thing, while something "evil" is something else. Are you in a huff and not replying to my posts because you think I am "evil"?

@kellyjay said
Well we have killed off millions at a time in several time periods and doing so in the most gruesome manners.

No one is denying that there have been "evil" people who do "evil" things in the world. The fact that some have "killed off millions at a time in several time periods and done so in the most gruesome manners" does not mean that every immoral act is "evil".

@kellyjay said
Well we have killed off millions at a time in several time periods and doing so in the most gruesome manners.

Yes, and your point is ... ? That mankind is evil by nature? I dispute this; it's not a fact. It's a dogma to which I do not subscribe.

There are also acts of ordinary kindness and extraordinary bravery, every day, all around you -- they tend not to make the evening news, so maybe you don't notice them.