Spirituality
10 Apr 23
13 Apr 23
@moonbus saidWell each one us all share the same nature as every other of us, or do you dispute that?
Yes, and your point is ... ? That mankind is evil by nature? I dispute this; it's not a fact. It's a dogma to which I do not subscribe.
There are also acts of ordinary kindness and extraordinary bravery, every day, all around you -- they tend not to make the evening news, so maybe you don't notice them.
It is not abnormal to see one of us do both selfless or selfish things we are all capable of both and do them both throughout our lifetimes. Are you telling me that there good people who only do good and there is another group who only do evil things?
If evilness is not doing the good and loving thing we can see this distinction among us?
13 Apr 23
@kellyjay saidYour self-serving ideological misanthropic notion of "evilness" rinses the word "evil" of all practical meaning and application. If you are, as you claim, "equally evil as a rapist", speak for yourself. I am not.
If evilness is not doing the good and loving thing we can see this distinction among us?
13 Apr 23
@kellyjay saidwe are all capable of ...
It is not abnormal to see one of us do both selfless or selfish things we are all capable of both and do them both throughout our lifetimes.
Does someone being capable of committing a crime mean they are criminal? Does someone being capable of committing a crime mean they have a criminal nature?
14 Apr 23
@KellyJay
Well each one us all share the same nature as every other of us, or do you dispute that?
Yes and no. The nature we all share is that man's nature is not fixed and immutable. We are not substances; we are organisms, our shared nature is adaptable and flexible. The dictum 'it is what it is' does not apply to humans; we become what we make of ourselves.
It is not abnormal to see one of us do both selfless or selfish things we are all capable of both and do them both throughout our lifetimes.
Yes, we are capable of both selfless and selfish actions. Your point is ... ? Do you think selfless actions are always good and selfish actions always bad?
Are you telling me that there [are] good people who only do good and there is another group who only do evil things?
No, I am not telling you that.
If evilness is not doing the good and loving thing we can see this distinction among us?
Your 'if' clause is not true. Evil is not not doing the good and loving thing. There are neutral actions which are neither good nor evil, there are compound actions which have some good and some bad aspects, and so on. There is a huge spectrum between doing evil and doing good, it is not either/or, black-or-white.
14 Apr 23
2 edits
@moonbus saidI accidentally hit the thumbs down on your post sorry, it doesn't let us turn those off.
@KellyJay
Well each one us all share the same nature as every other of us, or do you dispute that?
Yes and no. The nature we all share is that man's nature is not fixed and immutable. We are not substances; we are organisms, our shared nature is adaptable and flexible. The dictum 'it is what it is' does not apply to humans; we become what we make of ourselves.
...[text shortened]... on. There is a huge spectrum between doing evil and doing good, it is not either/or, black-or-white.
The same nature is a yes and no question, the answer is yes, not both! How we act is according to our individualism but we all work with the same nature within us. The fact we can make choices means that our actions are something we can be held accountable for. Due to our shared fallen nature, we are working with a broken nature where we can want to do good and still do bad. The choices we make are our own, again, we choose, but the default has to do with looking out for number one and that can mean even at the expense of others.
Not denying somethings things we do or do not do are worse than others, but the point is that each one of us bounces around that spectrum in our actions or inactions daily. The thing is our nature is broken the loving and good we should do, we don't always, we can hate others instead of loving them for the most minuscule meaningless reasons political leanings, skin color, nationalities, some harm done against us, and if you look at the history of when people commit genocide it is done by the common man, not some subhuman, just get the hate to the proper level everything becomes permissible for us to us to do to others, we justify our hate, and when we start doing bad things to other people the greater our hate, the farther away we move from the love we should. This is the way of mankind even those far away from the greatest evil we have done down to the lesser degrees the more we dislike someone, our morality becomes toxic, but our actions are still our own. It is a progression we can even get to the point of hating being ourselves.
@kellyjay saidI read all this stuff you typed and I think, page 7, gosh, there's no evidence or indication that you have read or comprehended anything on the first 6 pages. It's like you are blanking it all out. Why can't you converse in good faith?
I accidentally hit the thumbs down on your post sorry, it doesn't let us turn those off.
The same nature is a yes and no question, the answer is yes, not both! How we act is according to our individualism but we all work with the same nature within us. The fact we can make choices means that our actions are something we can be held accountable for. Due to our shared falle ...[text shortened]... tions are still our own. It is a progression we can even get to the point of hating being ourselves.
14 Apr 23
@fmf saidAccording to Christian dogma, yes. That is the official interpretation of the myth of original sin. That is where KJ is coming from and explains why he desperately needs a savior (a ‘real’ one, not an allegory).
we are all capable of ...
Does someone being capable of committing a crime mean they are criminal? Does someone being capable of committing a crime mean they have a criminal nature?
14 Apr 23
@moonbus saidI am running under the assumptions that you agreed that evil is real, it isn’t just some word we use to describe behavior we have a very strong distaste for. Also that you may be blind to it, and so my point is out of all that is evil you only see a fraction that you are willing to acknowledge.
According to Christian dogma, yes. That is the official interpretation of the myth of original sin. That is where KJ is coming from and explains why he desperately needs a savior (a ‘real’ one, not an allegory).
15 Apr 23
@kellyjay saidmoonbus has offered you a definition of "evil". We're on page 7 of your own thread on "evil", you still haven't addressed it or even acknowledged it.
I am running under the assumptions that you agreed that evil is real, it isn’t just some word we use to describe behavior we have a very strong distaste for. Also that you may be blind to it, and so my point is out of all that is evil you only see a fraction that you are willing to acknowledge.
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@fmf saidKellyJay is a dogmatic right-wing Christian zealot who mindlessly regurgitates what he’s heard on a Sunday.
I read all this stuff you typed and I think, page 7, gosh, there's no evidence or indication that you have read or comprehended anything on the first 6 pages. It's like you are blanking it all out. Why can't you converse in good faith?
Unable to enter into debate because he lacks the depth of knowledge, perception and intellect. So he ignores people.
The classic ostrich with its head in the hole syndrome.
15 Apr 23
1 edit
@kellyjay saidDo you think that using a word to characterize behavior people have a very strong distaste for means that evil isn’t real ? That it’s imaginary ? Or that you think I think it’s imaginary ? Please clarify what you think “real” means.
I am running under the assumptions that you agreed that evil is real, it isn’t just some word we use to describe behavior we have a very strong distaste for. Also that you may be blind to it, and so my point is out of all that is evil you only see a fraction that you are willing to acknowledge.
15 Apr 23
@kellyjay saidNope. It's not just a matter of "strong distaste". "Evil" is an egregious, gratuitous, sociopathic action that is gravely detrimental /damaging to others, and which stems from an abject lack or even absence of empathy and compassion.
I am running under the assumptions that you agreed that evil is real, it isn’t just some word we use to describe behavior we have a very strong distaste for.
Are such behaviours "real"?
Yes, of course.