Spirituality
10 Apr 23
10 Apr 23
@kellyjay saidDo you get to say what is evil and so to someone else and you can call something evil and they accept it as good...
Really, how does that work, do you get to say what is evil and so to someone else and you can call something evil and they accept it as good, you both disagree and that is fine because it is like any other value judgment, an eye of the beholder type of thing. We can treat each other rather badly, sometimes extremely, but is that too just a value judgment like any other judgment?
Yes, labelling something "evil" is a value judgement. There may often be near unanimity. We use our moral compasses "to say [or perceive] what is evil".
If you and I see something as "evil" but someone else disagrees and "they accept it as good", then you and I will carry out our evaluation of that person's stance [or behaviour] using our moral compasses.
10 Apr 23
@kellyjay saidYes. Though, if the conflict gets to the point where there is some sort of civil liability or criminal behaviour, then the courts may have to adjudicate.
We can treat each other rather badly, sometimes extremely, but is that too just a value judgment like any other judgment?
Short of that, you need to make your own way in the world making your personal value judgements about your own and others' behaviour.
@KellyJay
Would these laws be "evil" according to your perception of "evil"?
[1] A law banning contraception
[2] A law banning civil unions between homosexuals
[3] A law banning interracial marriage
[4] A law making adultery and extra-marital sex criminal
[5] A law making blasphemous speech or writing illegal
@kellyjay saidDo you get to say what a rule of grammar is? And so to someone else you say “this is a hat” and someone else disagrees and says “ishkabibble noodle teöök“ and that is fine because rules of grammar are just in the eyes of beholders and anyone can say anything he feels like and make it mean anything he wants it to?
Really, how does that work, do you get to say what is evil and so to someone else and you can call something evil and they accept it as good, you both disagree and that is fine because it is like any other value judgment, an eye of the beholder type of thing. We can treat each other rather badly, sometimes extremely, but is that too just a value judgment like any other judgment?
Do you get to say what a driving license is and if you are driving around without one and run a red light and a police officer stops you and demands to see your driving license and you hand him a piece of toilet paper instead and claim that that is your driving license and that is fine because driving licenses are in the eyes of beholders?
No. Of course not.
11 Apr 23
@divegeester saidI think this thread is one of KellyJay's Monday Specials, i.e. a thread on the Monday after the Sunday when there was some sermon he liked but where he didn't understand the issues it raised well enough to be able have a proper discussion about it.
Kellyjay, you should consider starting a club here and only invite the people you want to debate with. That way you can pout in private. 😄
11 Apr 23
@moonbus saidSo I'm asking you is evil real, like a hat it is what it is, or is it just grammar, is it just a word with only the meaning we make up as we go? You can see the things done by people against people, are those just the ways we act, nothing going on here outside of some conflicts in judgment calls, from the one who harms another who has a different idea of what is good from the one who harmed them.
Do you get to say what a rule of grammar is? And so to someone else you say “this is a hat” and someone else disagrees and says “ishkabibble noodle teöök“ and that is fine because rules of grammar are just in the eyes of beholders and anyone can say anything he feels like and make it mean anything he wants it to?
Do you get to say what a driving license is and if you are d ...[text shortened]... cense and that is fine because driving licenses are in the eyes of beholders?
No. Of course not.
11 Apr 23
@kellyjay saidYou seem to be willfully NOT processing anything that's being said to you by anyone, including moonbus.
So I'm asking you is evil real, like a hat it is what it is, or is it just grammar, is it just a word with only the meaning we make up as we go? You can see the things done by people against people, are those just the ways we act, nothing going on here outside of some conflicts in judgment calls, from the one who harms another who has a different idea of what is good from the one who harmed them.
11 Apr 23
@kellyjay saidYou can see the things done by people against people, are those just the ways we act, nothing going on here outside of some conflicts in judgment calls...
So I'm asking you is evil real, like a hat it is what it is, or is it just grammar, is it just a word with only the meaning we make up as we go? You can see the things done by people against people, are those just the ways we act, nothing going on here outside of some conflicts in judgment calls, from the one who harms another who has a different idea of what is good from the one who harmed them.
There is no denying that some people do "evil" things.
Are looking for people to endorse your "all evil is equal" and "everyone is evil" analyses?
@kellyjay saidNothing going on here outside of some conflicts in judgment calls...
So I'm asking you is evil real, like a hat it is what it is, or is it just grammar, is it just a word with only the meaning we make up as we go? You can see the things done by people against people, are those just the ways we act, nothing going on here outside of some conflicts in judgment calls, from the one who harms another who has a different idea of what is good from the one who harmed them.
No one is suggesting rape, murder, child abuse etc. are "Nothing going on here".
Are you claiming someone is? Is that what you think moonbus is doing?
Do you think your personal moral outrage about rape, murder, and child abuse is more substantial or meaningful, in some way ~ than non-believers' outrage about the same things ~ because you are religious?
11 Apr 23
@kellyjay saidIs what is what WHAT is ?? No one makes up meanings as he goes, except in an insane asylum. You’re offering a false dichotomy between nonsense and insanity. I refuse to choose either of those options.
So I'm asking you is evil real, like a hat it is what it is, or is it just grammar, is it just a word with only the meaning we make up as we go? You can see the things done by people against people, are those just the ways we act, nothing going on here outside of some conflicts in judgment calls, from the one who harms another who has a different idea of what is good from the one who harmed them.
11 Apr 23
@moonbus saidSo evil, is it real, can you recognize it?
Is what is what WHAT is ?? No one makes up meanings as he goes, except in an insane asylum. You’re offering a false dichotomy between nonsense and insanity. I refuse to choose either of those options.