Spirituality
24 Aug 12
Originally posted by galveston75The three persons in the Godhead cooperate with each other and each regards the other with respect and honor. Each person gladly does His part in the grand scheme of things to benefit the whole. Right now, the Holy Spirit is doing what is necessary to glorify the Father and the Son. The Son has already spoken to glorify the Father and the Holy Spirit. We do not have full knowledge now, as the Apostle Paul has said.
You usually don't answer these questions but if they are the same and as the trinity expresses they are all equal, all knowing, all powerful... then why does one not speak as you quote but only says what the other tells him to speak?
Is the one speaking only what is told him to speak by the other one, weaker, not as knowlegable or as important?
Do t ...[text shortened]... d Jesus say to only pray to the Father? Why not just pray to them all and let them work it out?
31 Aug 12
Originally posted by RJHindsall of them. how many do you have?
Which "in beginning" are you referring to?
I do not see anything dishonest about the original English text.
that's because you don't know what you're talking about.
There is nothing dishonest or incorrect about translating a definite article as a definte article.
the contention is that an indefinite article is being translated as a definite article.
It is adding an indefinite article to the English translation where there was not one in the original Greek that I would call dishonest and incorrect. That is what changes the author's meaning and makes it conflict with the rest of what he said and other parts of scripture.
a definite article translated as an indefinite article or an indefinite article translated as a definite article are both dishonest and both change the authors original intent.
31 Aug 12
Originally posted by RJHindsIt beggars belief that anyone gives credence to this mumbo-jumbo!
The main things that writings in the Holy Bible points out is as follows:
...
God called the Word, who later put on flesh, was with God in the beginning.
...
HalleluYah !!!
It's the 21st Century for Christ's sake!
31 Aug 12
Originally posted by RJHindsYou are saying that no one can be a "Christian" (and therefore are excluded from god's grace) because what...? ...they don't believe in the trinity doctrine which is not even laid out in the Bible? Really...?
You got it. That is exactly what I am saying. You can't claim you are a Christian and make up your own doctrines to believe in. It is not left up to your private intepretation.
This is pure GOLD.
31 Aug 12
Originally posted by wolfgang59Actually belief is the problem. If belief could be 'beggared' then maybe the problem would be solved.
It beggars belief that anyone gives credence to this mumbo-jumbo!
It's the 21st Century for Christ's sake!
That doesn't mean all people are better educated or more intelligent or more rational.
Originally posted by galveston75You asked, "Why did Jesus say to only pray to the Father?"
You usually don't answer these questions but if they are the same and as the trinity expresses they are all equal, all knowing, all powerful... then why does one not speak as you quote but only says what the other tells him to speak?
Is the one speaking only what is told him to speak by the other one, weaker, not as knowlegable or as important?
Do t ...[text shortened]... d Jesus say to only pray to the Father? Why not just pray to them all and let them work it out?
Jesus did not say to "ONLY" pray to the Father. He gave the disciples an example of how to pray.
“And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. In this manner, therefore, pray:
Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
(Matthew 8:5-14 NKJV)
31 Aug 12
Originally posted by VoidSpiritYou say, "the contention is that an indefinite article is being translated as a definite article." There are no indefinite articles in the Greek. The translators are not translating an indefinte article, which does not exist in Koine Greek, into a definite article.
all of them. how many do you have?
I do not see anything dishonest about the original English text.
that's because you don't know what you're talking about.
There is nothing dishonest or incorrect about translating a definite article as a definte article.
the contention is that an indefinite article is being t ...[text shortened]... slated as a definite article are both dishonest and both change the authors original intent.
What has happened in the case of the Watchtower's New World Translation is that they have added the indefinte article "a" before God, when the original Greek does not have an indefinte article nor is it needed in the English to sound right or give the intentions of the author. The author clearly did not mean to say there was another God called the Word. So it is clearly YOU that does not know what he is taking about, not me.
Originally posted by divegeesterChristians belief Christ is God in the flesh and that He is the Word came down from the Kingdom of Heaven. The Christian also believes that the Holy Spirit is God and the Father is also God, yet there is only one God. So the solution to this mystery of God is that there are three divine persons in one God -- the Triune God or for short, the Trinity. This is the Trinity Doctrine that has been established by the Christian Church under the authority of Christ.
You are saying that no one can be a "Christian" (and therefore are excluded from god's grace) because what...? ...they don't believe in the trinity doctrine which is not even laid out in the Bible? Really...?
This is pure GOLD.
http://bible-truth.org/Trinity.html
The Athanasian Creed
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the whole univeral Christian faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the whole universal Christian faith is this:
That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Spirit.
But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Spirit. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Spirit uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Spirit unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite.
So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Spirit Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Spirit is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; and the Holy Spirit is Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the whole universal Christian religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords.
The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Essence of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Essence of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood by God. One altogether; not by confusion of Essence; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the whole universal Christian faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.
Don't look to your own understanding, but rely on the understanding of the whole universal Christian church.
31 Aug 12
Originally posted by RJHindsso, constantine was not a christian. he was a "christian"
Your first sentence was the only part of that post that I was addressing. The rest of that post was nonsense anyway. 🙄
thanks for posting the wikipedia article which confirms my contention, and you're a douche despite your quote mining attempt.
31 Aug 12
Originally posted by RJHindsthere is an indefinite article in koine greek. they do it by leaving out the definite article. other languages of antiquity used the same format.
You say, "the contention is that an indefinite article is being translated as a definite article." There are no indefinite articles in the Greek.
The translators are not translating an indefinte article, which does not exist in Koine Greek, into a definite article.
What has happened in the case of the Watchtower's New World Translation is that they have added the indefinte article "a" before God, when the original Greek does not have an indefinte article nor is it needed in the English to sound right or give the intentions of the author. The author clearly did not mean to say there was another God called the Word. So it is clearly YOU that does not know what he is taking about, not me.
no, you still don't know what you're talking about.
i didn't say the author meant there was another god called the word. that is not what the author meant.
the original intent of the author was to say that the word was divine, in the sense that it issued from god. this is in direct co-relation with the rest of the new testament texts.
now if you want the full meaning of the initent of the author designated as "john," you must first learn what "logos" means.
hint, it was first used by the greek philosopher heraclitus.
i doubt you have the mental capacity to figure it out on your own, but i'll give you a chance to prove yourself.
31 Aug 12
Originally posted by RJHindsWell yes he did say to pray only to his Father. Not one mention by him or any of his followers to pray to anyone else............ever.
You asked, "Why did Jesus say to only pray to the Father?"
Jesus did not say to "ONLY" pray to the Father. He gave the disciples an example of how to pray.
[b]“And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, ...[text shortened]... r trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
(Matthew 8:5-14 NKJV)[/b]
Do you have any examples of anyone praying to Jesus?