It desires to have you

Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
Hi there. If I may. If God is omniscient - the rest follows, using deductive reasoning. If He's already seen what is going to happen and did not take measures to change or prevent those things, then they must be pre-ordained. Thus Judas DID do what he was born to do, as did the crowds, pharisees, etc. Not taking into account whether we LIKE this conclusion, is it wrong?

You think that there is a difference between causing something and allowing it?

Originally posted by KellyJay
You think that there is a difference between causing something and allowing it?

Surely there is some difference

Originally posted by KellyJay
You think that there is a difference between causing something and allowing it?

Your god was unable to create life that wouldn't disappoint him? So he created man knowing he, the creator god, would eventually kill everything but the fishes. Who could not praise and worship such a god!

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Surely there is some difference

I agree

Originally posted by apathist
Your god was unable to create life that wouldn't disappoint him? So he created man knowing he, the creator god, would eventually kill everything but the fishes. Who could not praise and worship such a god!

According to the bible:

God, and only God is sinless [check]
God, and only God is good. [check]

This means that anything or anyone outside of God--that would include all His creations--are bad (as in 'not good' ) and sinful.

Taking that into account, God's only choice is to create or not create. Everything He creates, by definition, is imperfect, bad, and sinful.

We praise God for choosing to create us. We don't begrudge Him for not making us perfect.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I can obey my conscience.

Of course you can, so can I. The question is whether you have ever disobeyed it.

Originally posted by FMF
Yes we both know it and I am clearly not pretending anything so why do keep asking about it? I want to know more about your notion that "sin" is somehow defined by something that is not "humanly possible".

So why haven't you given me a straight answer yet? Do you agree that you cannot obey your conscience without fail? Yes or No?

FMF: If you don't think it is humanly possible to always do what you know to be the right thing, then why are you talking about it?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Because that in my mind means we are all sinful. Do you believe it is always humanly possible to do the right thing?

According to wiki, at the time of her death, Mother Teresa and the Missionaries of Charity had recruited over 4,000 sisters and an associated brotherhood of 300 members who were operating 610 missions in 123 countries. Ideological criticisms aside, was it a "sin" on her part that she did not do and achieve more?

Originally posted by FMF
According to wiki, at the time of her death, Mother Teresa and the Missionaries of Charity had recruited over 4,000 sisters and an associated brotherhood of 300 members who were operating 610 missions in 123 countries. Ideological criticisms aside, was it a "sin" on her part that she did not do and achieve more?

I cannot see her heart and her motives and don't know to what extent she was obeying her conscience so I am not in a position to judge her actions and neither are you, only God can judge that. So once again you have dodged my question. Have you obeyed your conscience without fail since the start of your life to this present time? Yes or No?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So once again you have dodged my question. Have you obeyed your conscience without fail since the start of your life to this present time? Yes or No?

You already have your answer. Your 'Do bears poo in the woods - Yes or No?' questions repeated ad nauseam are boring. I am interested in how you define "sin" in terms of what is not "humanly possible". You said " I don't think it is humanly possible to always do what you know to be the right thing because of the weakness of the flesh and if we did we would be sinless but we are not" - it would have been "the right thing" for Mother Teresa to have done even more but it was perhaps not humanly possible. So was her failure to do more a "sin" in your view?

Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
According to the bible:

God, and only God is sinless [check]
God, and only God is good. [check]

This means that anything or anyone outside of God--that would include all His creations--are bad (as in 'not good' ) and sinful.

Taking that into account, God's only choice is to create or not create. Everything He creates, by definition, is imperfe ...[text shortened]... l.

We praise God for choosing to create us. We don't begrudge Him for not making us perfect.

'God, and only God is sinless [check]
God, and only God is good. [check]'

Have you not read the Old Testament?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
'God, and only God is sinless [check]
God, and only God is good. [check]'

Have you not read the Old Testament?

I have you have a point?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I have you have a point?

You believe the behaviour of God in the Old Testament is both good and sinless?!

(Sure you want to open that can of worms?)

Originally posted by FMF
You already have your answer. Your 'Do bears poo in the woods - Yes or No?' questions repeated ad nauseam are boring. I am interested in how you define "sin" in terms of what is not "humanly possible". You said [b]" I don't think it is humanly possible to always do what you know to be the right thing because of the weakness of the flesh and if we did we would be ...[text shortened]... ore but it was perhaps not humanly possible. So was her failure to do more a "sin" in your view?

I think you are just pretending to have misunderstood the verse I quoted and my subsequent question to you. What I meant to say is I believe is not humanly possible to consistently obey your conscience day in day out without fail. The failure does not occur because the particular action demands a humanly impossible task but rather due to some other reason such as following your own will above the instruction of your conscience (due to the weakness of your own flesh). If you disagree just say so.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
You believe the behaviour of God in the Old Testament is both good and sinless?!

(Sure you want to open that can of worms?)

Either God is the measure of good or good is merely based upon your own subjective opinions of what is good. Apart from the existence of God, 'good' is meaninglessly subjective. If God exists He is the measure of good, if he doesn't it's merely your measure of good vs my measure of good which is totally worthless.