Jesus Lied . For The Bible Tells Me So .

@fmf said

As for self-aggrandizing tall tales about saving so many lives that they are literally innumerable, what's the downside of calling it out as a delusion?

Can you link to where she claimed this?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
But you have left Dive sitting on the curb saying, "I'm not hurt, I'm not hurt."

No, I haven't. He's simply demonstrating that your assumption that two friends cannot have different perspectives is faulty and - to put it kindly - reflects poorly on you. What are you really trying to do by facetiously dismissing his sincere attempt to set you straight as being akin to saying "I'm not hurt, I'm not hurt"?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Can you link to where she claimed this?

No.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Dive believes in angels. I think he is wrong about this but not deluded.

I think the belief that angels are real is delusional because I am convinced that they are not real.

@moonbus said
The 'cataclysm', or the "transfiguration" for those with ears to hear, is interior -- that is how I interpret this most mystical of all of the Jewish prophets.

Whereas Paul, prophet to the gentiles, on the other hand, interprets everything in the crudest, most materialistic, least spiritual sense ... but that is another story.

This thread has diverged somewhat. Apologies for that.

I also have issues with Paul.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
If he recounted a story of meeting an angel in human form, I would not automatically judge him delusional. I would ask follow up questions looking for an alternative explanation.

If Dive recounted meeting a flying angel with wings I would probably think something else was going on and advise him to speak to somebody about it.

I would perceive the claim as delusional.

Follow-up questions would perhaps reveal and explain the reason for the delusion.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
If Dive recounted meeting a flying angel with wings I would probably think something else was going on and advise him to speak to somebody about it.

If divegeester or Suzianne recounted meeting a flying angel with wings, I would see these accounts as being delusional. The "something else [that] was going on" might explain the delusion. Advice to them to speak to somebody about it could well be good advice.

@fmf said
I think the belief that angels are real is delusional because I am convinced that they are not real.

It is not enough that you are personally convinced. You would need to provide conclusive evidence that angels didn't exist. If they still believed in angels after receiving this conclusive evidence, only then would they meet the criteria for delusional.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
It is not enough that you are personally convinced. You would need to provide conclusive evidence that angels didn't exist. If they still believed in angels after receiving this conclusive evidence, only then would they meet the criteria for delusional.

I don't agree with this.

I am using the word delusional in the everyday sense.

I am not talking about "clinical delusion".

@fmf said
I don't agree with this.

I am using the word delusional in the everyday sense.

I am not talking about "clinical delusion".

Here is delusion in the everyday sense:

delusion
noun
a false belief or judgment about external reality, held despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, occurring especially in mental conditions.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
You would need to provide conclusive evidence that angels didn't exist..

Do I have to provide conclusive evidence that I have NOT had hundreds of subscribers banned for disagreeing with me [because I am a secret mod] before I can dismiss her ridiculous accusation as both delusional and paranoid?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Here is delusion in the everyday sense:

delusion
noun
a false belief or judgment about external reality, held despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, occurring especially in mental conditions.

I think there is no evidence that angels exist so I perceive people who claim to have met them and talked to them as delusional.

Delusional: "believing things that are not true". Cambridge Dictionary.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
It is not enough that you are personally convinced.

It is enough if it is the basis of my perspective.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
You would need to provide conclusive evidence that angels didn't exist.

"Provide to" whom??

@fmf said
It is enough if it is the basis of my perspective.

As long as you accept that a theist might view you as delusional yourself for not believing in what they believe.

This being the case, we are all delusional in somebody's eyes rendering the whole conversation about who is and isn't delusional quite meaningless..