John 3:16 (belief)

@kellyjay said
I agree

You agree that fossils are valid evidence of evolution?

Hurrah!

@ghost-of-a-duke said
You agree that fossils are valid evidence of evolution?

Hurrah!

I agree that they are evidence of dead things. The more you add to that the less you can be sure about. 😉

@kellyjay said
I agree that they are evidence of dead things. The more you add to that the less you can be sure about. 😉

This is a scenario I believe would factually occur:

If you were to spend a whole day in the company of experienced geologists who talked you through fossil collections, you would realise how wrong you are in your current understanding. And if I were to spend an entire day in the company of biblical scholars, my views on biblical accounts would remain unchanged.

The above wouldn't be a result of you being more open minded than me, but the result of the evidence being more compelling.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

To clarify THIS was a QUOTATION -

I’m not preaching, teaching, lecturing of otherwise directing other Christians in how they should apply the words of Christ to their spiritual lives.

- divegeester

This

"live and let live"

Was a paraphrase.
I clarified that the latter was never intended as a quotation and the former WAS a quotation.

Yes I complained when you paraphrased "Satanic Christians". Without going over all that again, I don't know if we're dealing with exactly equivalent situations.

If you say you paraphrased "Satanic Christians" to label my attitude was like me paraphrasing "live and let live" to label Dive's attitude, I can accept that.

There's enough blame and misunderstanding to go around.
No "model poster" [paraphrased] are you, with some high ground in good behavior.

And either Dive or Ghost can explain exactly what is wrong here if someone DOES -

" ... preaching, teaching, lecturing of otherwise directing other Christians in how they should apply the words of Christ to their spiritual lives. "

[my syntax]

Break it down Dive.

1.) preaching is wrong here because _______________ ?

2.) teaching is wrong here because _________________ ?

3.) lecturing is wrong here because __________________?

4.) directing other Christians in how they should apply the words of Christ to their spiritual lives is wrong here because _________________?

I've proved that you do it. So if you suggest that it is bad thing to take place here in some general way, please explain WHY ?

Is there something in "debate and general discussion ... " that makes these activities inappropriate in the Spirituality Forum?

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

To clarify THIS was a QUOTATION -

I’m not preaching, teaching, lecturing of otherwise directing other Christians in how they should apply the words of Christ to their spiritual lives.

- divegeester

This

"live and let live"

Was a paraphrase.
I clarified that the latter was never intended as a quo ...[text shortened]... g to go around.
No "model poster" [paraphrased] are you, with some high ground in good behavior.

Yes, the instances were equivalent. I never attributed 'Satanic Christian' to Lee and simply used quotation marks in place of italics. (For emphasis). This I believe was blatantly obvious and for you to complain about that and then do the same thing to another poster smacks of hypocrisy.

Ghost of a Duke - Model Poster.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Yes, the instances were equivalent. I never attributed 'Satanic Christian' to Lee and simply used quotation marks in place of italics. (For emphasis).

And the charge is bogus and reflects your own kind of eager ignorance.

This I believe was blatantly obvious and for you to complain about that and then do the same thing to another poster smacks of hypocrisy.

I think smacking of hypocrisy is an one believing that Satan is nonsense from the Bible as well as God, and waxing all indignant with crocodile tears like you're offended for others that they were called "Satanic Christians" .

And I know Witness Lee cared a ton more for the complete spiritual welfare of Christians of all types through thousands of messages (and his life's example) to help them in every conceivable way.

Ghost of a Duke - Model Poster.

Not.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Yes, the instances were equivalent. I never attributed 'Satanic Christian' to Lee and simply used quotation marks in place of italics. (For emphasis).

And the charge is bogus and reflects your own kind of eager ignorance.

This I believe was blatantly obvious and for you to complain about that and then do the same thing ...[text shortened]... hem in every conceivable way.


[quote]
Ghost of a Duke - Model Poster.

Not.

Explain why the charge is bogus?

Why is it not okay for me to infer 'Satanic Christians' from Lee's description of Catholics and Protestants being in an organization of Satan?

I believe a Christian in an organization of Satan can reasonably be described as a Satanic Christian.

@kellyjay said
I believe in God, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit and these three are one in complete harmony with each other. So if One of them says or does anything it will be in complete agreement with the each other. Jesus said He and the Father were One, again in complete harmony, you see Jesus you see the Father.

You reject that? You think that if the Holy Spir ...[text shortened]... not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Yes. In accordance with the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth, the words spoken by Him are in "complete harmony" with God's words. It also makes logical sense that the spirit of truth would be in "complete harmony" with both Jesus and God.

The problem is that the gospel in which you believe is NOT in "complete harmony" with the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth.

For example, the concept that no one is able to make themselves righteous is NOT part of the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth. If you believe that this is not true, then prove it by citing all the passages that back that up.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Explain why the charge is bogus?

Why is it not okay for me to infer 'Satanic Christians' from Lee's description of Catholics and Protestants being in an organization of Satan?

I believe a Christian in an organization of Satan can reasonably be described as a Satanic Christian.

I believe it is wrong because it is one thing to be a conscious deliberate worshiper of the Devil - I mean you have devoted your heart and soul to the service of Satan, like Anton LaVey (author of "The Satanic Bible", founder of The Church of Satan). This is a matter of choosing to dedicate and consecrate your soul to Satan as an object of worship. This person I think has the right to proudly identify himself as a follower of Satan longing to be faithful TO Satan. That I think is Satanic.

It is another thing to be unwittingly in something in which Satan has made inroads by trickery, subtly, counterfeit, deception polluted that which was originally set apart for God, but in darkness has lost its way. I would not say such people caught in that system are "Satanic".

A much as you might like to condemn Witness Lee he did not use the term - "Satanic Jews" or "Satanic Catholics" or "Satanic Protestants." You may want to use those phrases. You shouldn't be honest that the phrases are YOUR pet phrases and not try to place them into the mouth of Witness Lee.

From www.contendingforthefaith.org responses. [my bolding]

Concerning Judaism, Catholicism, and Protestantism

From: Answers to the Bible Answer Man – Appendix
Testimonies from the Churches

November 5

The Bible Answer Man continually quotes Witness Lee’s statement that “Judaism is satanic, Catholicism is demonic, and Protestantism is Christless,” and publicly chastises him for making such an apparently bold and condemning statement. However, he neglects to present the context in which this statement was made with the scriptural basis used by Brother Lee for such a remark. Therefore, we take this opportunity to present to the public the basis, both from Scripture and historical facts, to support this statement.

In considering these matters, we must distinguish between people and organizations. Most certainly our Lord loves every human being, yet there are certain things, to which believers are related, which He hates and will judge (Rev. 2:5-6, 14-16, 20-23; 18:4-8). Thus, in condemning according to the Scriptures these religious systems, we do not condemn the believers who are in them. We recognize that there are many true, born-again believers in Catholicism and Protestantism. Their involvement does not in the least diminish the fact of their regeneration. However, it surely is a great hindrance to their progress in the Christian life, and is extremely offensive to the Lord. Thus, He repeatedly calls them to “repent” (Rev. 2:5, 16, 22; 3:3, 19) and to “come out” (Rev. 18:4).

His caring tone reminds us of one A. W. Tozer who even YOU quoted positively in a thread.

My bolding below:

Reflect upon one of the last things written by A. W. Tozer in his book God Tells the Man Who Cares. The article is titled, “The Waning Authority of Christ in the Churches” (pp. 163-172).

My grief is simply the result of a condition which I believe to be almost universally prevalent among the churches…. Let me state the cause of my burden. It is this: Jesus Christ has today almost no authority at all among the groups that call themselves by His name. …I do mean Protestant churches generally, and I include those that protest the loudest that they are in spiritual descent from our Lord and His apostles, namely, the evangelicals…. Nominally He is head over all, but in every crisis someone else makes the decisions…. The Lordship of Jesus is not quite forgotten among Christians, but it has been relegated to the hymnal where all responsibility toward it may be comfortably discharged in a glow of pleasant religious emotion…. He [Christ] is widely recommended as a kind of spiritual psychiatrist with remarkable powers to straighten people out…. Of course this strange Christ has no relation whatever to the Christ of the New Testament…. The causes back of the decline in our Lord’s authority are many. I name only two. One is the power of custom, precedent and tradition within the older religious groups….

See https://contendingforthefaith.org/en/concerning-judaism-catholicism-and-protestantism/

@ghost-of-a-duke said
This is a scenario I believe would factually occur:

If you were to spend a whole day in the company of experienced geologists who talked you through fossil collections, you would realise how wrong you are in your current understanding. And if I were to spend an entire day in the company of biblical scholars, my views on biblical accounts would remain unchanged.
...[text shortened]... result of you being more open minded than me, but the result of the evidence being more compelling.

So your experts are better than mine in your opinion, well I've been shown my place. 🙂

Bring a lecture up and I will too, I'll watch yours, you watch mine, on scripture and fossils.

Unless you have to have a full 24 hours to make a point.

@thinkofone said
Yes. In accordance with the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth, the words spoken by Him are in "complete harmony" with God's words. It also makes logical sense that the spirit of truth would be in "complete harmony" with both Jesus and God.

The problem is that the gospel in which you believe is NOT in "complete harmony" with the gospel preached by Jesus ...[text shortened]... h. If you believe that this is not true, then prove it by citing all the passages that back that up.

I got news for you even the Words Jesus spoke after He was raised from the dead are in complete harmony with God's words, because He is God.

@thinkofone said
Yes. In accordance with the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth, the words spoken by Him are in "complete harmony" with God's words. It also makes logical sense that the spirit of truth would be in "complete harmony" with both Jesus and God.

The problem is that the gospel in which you believe is NOT in "complete harmony" with the gospel preached by Jesus ...[text shortened]... h. If you believe that this is not true, then prove it by citing all the passages that back that up.

What is the gospel according to YOU that is in scripture you think I'm in disagreement with?

You have the ability to write it out, or is it one of those things you shy away from like you do so many other things.

I believe it is wrong because it is one thing to be a conscious deliberate worshiper of the Devil - I mean you have devoted your heart and soul to the service of Satan, like Anton LaVey (author of "The Satanic Bible", founder of The Church of Satan). This is a matter of choosing to dedicate and consecrate your soul to Satan as an object of worship.

There is genuinely a sickness in you sonship that really is repellant and unhealthy.

I have 'not' devoted my heart and soul to the service of Satan. (Nor have other non-believers in your particular brand of the divine).

Seek help.

@kellyjay said
What is the gospel according to YOU that is in scripture you think I'm in disagreement with?

You have the ability to write it out, or is it one of those things you shy away from like you do so many other things.

Following is my post in its entirety. Reread the sentences in BOLD.

If in fact the gospel in which you believe is in "complete harmony" with the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth as you claim, then you should have no problem citing the passages. Go ahead KJ. Cite them all.

The reason you don't is because you can't. The gospel in which you believe is NOT in "complete harmony" with the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth. Once again you lack the maturity and integrity to admit it.

Yes. In accordance with the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth, the words spoken by Him are in "complete harmony" with God's words. It also makes logical sense that the spirit of truth would be in "complete harmony" with both Jesus and God.

The problem is that the gospel in which you believe is NOT in "complete harmony" with the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth.

For example, the concept that no one is able to make themselves righteous is NOT part of the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth. If you believe that this is not true, then prove it by citing all the passages that back that up.