Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell of course it doesn't actually say it in the text any more than it says you don't have to be a catholic. It is clear that organisation membership is not a requirement for eternal life so any claim that it is, is quite malicious actually.
you said it, not me, so where does it say that?
Originally posted by divegeesteris it, so if its not explicitly stated where does the bible imply that its not a requirement.
Well of course it doesn't actually say it in the text any more than it says you don't have to be a catholic. It is clear that organisation membership is not a requirement for eternal life so any claim that it is, is quite malicious actually.
Originally posted by divegeesterI dont know, you tell me, its your statement, if its not explicitly stated, where is it implied? If its not explicitly stated nor implied, where does the idea come from? Is it even Biblical?
Do you think God forgot to put it in?
It's interesting to see you showing your true attitude to his topic after weeks, months and even years of obfuscation.
Originally posted by divegeester"organisation membership"
Well of course it doesn't actually say it in the text any more than it says you don't have to be a catholic. It is clear that organisation membership is not a requirement for eternal life so any claim that it is, is quite malicious actually.
Humm, I guess I'm not a member as I've never filled out anything like a membership application for some kind of card nor has any JW that I know of.
Robbie have you filled out one of those mysterious applications?
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Originally posted by galveston75i cant see where he has said you need to fill in an application. are you being facetious on purpose? are you being the best that you can right now? think about god and think how he would expect you to react, now look back at your replies, look back at god and ask yourself again...are you being a good christian?
"organisation membership"
Humm, I guess I'm not a member as I've never filled out anything like a membership application for some kind of card nor has any JW that I know of.
Robbie have you filled out one of those mysterious applications?
Originally posted by galveston75no i cant say that I have, but lets see him explain how he has concluded that one does not need to be a part of an organisation in order to enter Gods Kingdom, have eternal life, see salvation or any of the other appellations that he has bolted on to his questions. He has admitted that its not explicitly stated, therefore it must be implied, lets see how he has come to the conclusion that he has. Lets see if he can substantiate his claim Biblically.
"organisation membership"
Humm, I guess I'm not a member as I've never filled out anything like a membership application for some kind of card nor has any JW that I know of.
Robbie have you filled out one of those mysterious applications?
- Joined
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- Moves
- 95105
Originally posted by robbie carrobielook at you, you old myopic fool. how many things do you believe that are not clearly stated, how many things do you believe because they are implied. you need to get your own house in order before you start throwing stones at others. i dont always agree with dive, but you could learn a lot about how to conduct yourself from him............come to think about it, you could learn a lot from me and im not even a christian and im pretty damn sure that if you and me stood before your god, he would go for an honest atheist above a christian full of bile and lies.
no i cant say that I have, but lets see him explain how he has concluded that one does not need to be a part of an organisation in order to enter Gods Kingdom, have eternal life, see salvation or any of the other appellations that he has bolted on to his questions. He has admitted that its not explicitly stated, therefore it must be implied, lets see ...[text shortened]... e has come to the conclusion that he has. Lets see if he can substantiate his claim Biblically.
Originally posted by stellspalfieI think I've answered accordingly. You are not my judge on how I answer and it is clear you are not ever looking for the answers we give and could really care less but only here to antagonize all you can.
i cant see where he has said you need to fill in an application. are you being facetious on purpose? are you being the best that you can right now? think about god and think how he would expect you to react, now look back at your replies, look back at god and ask yourself again...are you being a good christian?
Originally posted by stellspalfiesorry too stupid, immoral, a propagandist and inhumane to enter dialogue. The only thing i have learned from you is to stay far far away from people who are merely contentious and who believe their own propaganda.
look at you, you old myopic fool. how many things do you believe that are not clearly stated, how many things do you believe because they are implied. you need to get your own house in order before you start throwing stones at others. i dont always agree with dive, but you could learn a lot about how to conduct yourself from him............come to think ...[text shortened]... tood before your god, he would go for an honest atheist above a christian full of bile and lies.
Originally posted by divegeesterLets start with this fact:
Well of course it doesn't actually say it in the text any more than it says you don't have to be a catholic. It is clear that organisation membership is not a requirement for eternal life so any claim that it is, is quite malicious actually.
Does Jehovah really have an organization here on earth?
To answer that question, consider the following:
Are God’s heavenly creatures, the angels, organized?
Dan. 7:9, 10: “I kept on beholding until there were thrones placed and the Ancient of Days sat down. His clothing was white just like snow, and the hair of his head was like clean wool. His throne was flames of fire; its wheels were a burning fire. There was a stream of fire flowing and going out from before him. There were a thousand thousands that kept ministering to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand that kept standing right before him. The Court took its seat, and there were books that were opened.”
Ps. 103:20, 21: “Bless Jehovah, O you angels of his, mighty in power, carrying out his word, by listening to the voice of his word. Bless Jehovah, all you armies of his, you ministers of his, doing his will.” (An “army” is an organized group.)
Part 2:
How did God convey instructions to his servants on earth in times past?
When worshipers of Jehovah were few in number, he gave directions to family heads such as Noah and Abraham, and they then acted as Jehovah’s spokesmen to their families. (Gen. 7:1, 7; 12:1-5) When Jehovah delivered the Israelites from Egypt, he gave them directions through Moses. (Ex. 3:10) At Mount Sinai, God organized the people into a nation, providing laws and regulations to govern their worship and their relations with one another. (Ex. 24:12) He established a priesthood to take the lead in matters of worship and to instruct the people in Jehovah’s requirements; at times he also raised up prophets to deliver needed exhortation and warning to the people. (Deut. 33:8, 10; Jer. 7:24, 25) Thus, although Jehovah listened to the prayers of individual worshipers, he provided instruction for them through an organizational arrangement.
As the time neared for Jehovah to begin to unify true worshipers with himself by means of Jesus Christ, God sent him to earth to act as His spokesman. (Heb. 1:1, 2) Then with the outpouring of holy spirit at Pentecost of 33 C.E., the Christian congregation was brought into existence. After Jesus had returned to heaven, this congregation became Jehovah’s arrangement for instructing and for coordinating the efforts of individual Christians. There were overseers to take the lead in local congregations, and a central governing body made necessary decisions and helped to coordinate activity. Clearly, Jehovah had brought into existence an organization on earth made up of true Christians.—Acts 14:23; 16:4, 5; Gal. 2:7-10.
Part 3:
Do Jehovah’s works of physical creation indicate that he is a God of organization?
Isa. 40:26: “Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one of them is missing.” (The stars are grouped into galaxies and move in relation to one another, even though the characteristics of the individual p. 282stars differ. The planets move with precision timing, in assigned orbits. The electrons found in every atom of every element also have orbits. And the structure of all matter follows mathematical patterns that are so consistent that it was possible for scientists to predict the existence of certain elements before they actually discovered them. All of this gives evidence of extraordinary organization.)
Originally posted by galveston75Robbie said in the other thread that he thought a person would be precluded from eternal life if they were not a member of the JW organisation, however in this thread he says he doesn't know. It is quite confusing for readers of Hesse threads to understand where it is you stand on this matter as corporate body and also as individuals, if there is a difference.
I think I've answered accordingly. You are not my judge on how I answer and it is clear you are not ever looking for the answers we give and could really care less but only here to antagonize all you can.
Where do you stand, which of the two answers robbie has given do you align with, if any?
Part 4:
Does the Bible show that true Christians would be an organized people?
Matt. 24:14; 28:19, 20: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them . . . teaching them.” (How would this be accomplished without organization? When Jesus trained his early disciples for this work, He did not simply tell each one to go wherever he desired and to share his faith in whatever way he chose. He trained them, gave them instructions and sent them out in an organized manner. See Luke 8:1; 9:1-6; 10:1-16.)
Heb. 10:24, 25: “Let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you behold the day drawing near.” (But to where would a person direct interested ones so they could obey this command if there were no organization with regular meetings where they could gather?)
1 Cor. 14:33, 40: “God is a God, not of disorder, but of peace. . . . Let all things take place decently and by arrangement.” (The apostle Paul is here discussing orderly procedure at congregation meetings. Applying this inspired counsel requires respect for organization.)
1 Pet. 2:9, 17: “But you are ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies’ of the one that called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. . . . Have love for the whole association of brothers.” (An association of people whose efforts are directed to accomplish a particular work is an organization.)
And you say we don't answer you....