@galveston75 saidThe custom of being called by more than one name is common in many cultures. The same situation occurs with names in the Bible. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also named Israel. (Genesis 35:10) The apostle Peter is named in five different ways—Symeon, Simon, Peter, Cephas, and Simon Peter. (Matthew 10:2; 16:16; John 1:42; Acts 15:7, 14) How can we be sure that Michael is another name for Jesus? Consider the following Scriptural evidence.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
What was God's first born son's name when he was in heaven, before he was born here on earth as a human? It was not Jesus as that name was given to him once he was born a human.
So what was his name before in heaven?
And once he did die as a human and then ascended to heaven, what was his name when back in heaven?
The Bible contains five references to the mighty spirit creature Michael. Three occurrences are in the book of Daniel. At Daniel 10:13, 21, we read that a dispatched angel is rescued by Michael, who is called “one of the foremost princes” and “the prince of you people.” Next, at Daniel 12:1, we learn that in the time of the end, “Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people.” A further mention of Michael occurs at Revelation 12:7, which describes “Michael and his angels” as fighting a vital war that results in the ousting of Satan and his wicked angels from heaven.
Notice that in each of the above-mentioned cases, Michael is portrayed as a warrior angel battling for and protecting God’s people, even confronting Jehovah’s greatest enemy, Satan.
Jude verse 9 calls Michael “the archangel.”((((((((( The prefix “arch” means “principal” or “chief,” and the word “archangel” is never used in the plural form in the Bible.))))))))))
The only other verse in which an archangel is mentioned is at 1 Thessalonians 4:16, where
((((((((( Paul describes the resurrected Jesus, saying: “The Lord [Jesus] himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet.” So Jesus Christ himself is here identified as the archangel, or chief angel. )))))))))))
Jesus Christ is Michael the archangel. Both names—Michael meaning “Who Is Like God?” and Jesus meaning “Jehovah Is Salvation” focus attention on his role as the leading advocate of God’s sovereignty. Philippians 2:9 states: “God exalted him [the glorified Jesus] to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name.”
It is important to note that the human birth of Jesus was not the beginning of his life. Before Jesus was born, Mary was visited by an angel who told her that she would conceive a child by means of holy spirit and that she should name the child Jesus. (Luke 1:31) During his ministry, Jesus often spoke of his prehuman existence.—John 3:13; 8:23, 58.
So Michael the archangel is Jesus in his prehuman existence. After his resurrection and return to heaven, Jesus resumed his service as Michael, the chief angel, “to the glory of God the Father.”—Philippians 2:11.
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@galveston75
To clarify, you only answer your own questions? (And only then with a cut and paste from the Watch Tower).
Sad.
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidBump
If that is intended as an answer to my question, it fails on multiple levels.
You criticised the Trinity as it was not something believed by the early church. My question to you, was Jesus being the archangel Michael something believed by the early church?
Yes or no?
90d
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
As far as I know, there are no scriptures that say that Jesus told anyone that he was also the angel Michael. But that does not mean that everything Jesus spoke of was written down and was printed in the Bible.
He had many available times in the years with his apostles that to teach. So I was not there to be able to answer one way or the other.
90d
@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidSad? Why? Too much information for you? Does that mean you don't look at the information and more importantly look up the scriptures quoted? Are you afraid of what your bible says and that you might learn?
@galveston75
To clarify, you only answer your own questions? (And only then with a cut and paste from the Watch Tower).
Sad.
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@galveston75 saidSo do you accept that criticising/rejecting the Trinity because it was not believed/known by the early church is negated by your belief in something that was also not believed/known at that time?
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
As far as I know, there are no scriptures that say that Jesus told anyone that he was also the angel Michael. But that does not mean that everything Jesus spoke of was written down and was printed in the Bible.
He had many available times in the years with his apostles that to teach. So I was not there to be able to answer one way or the other.
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@galveston75 saidYou replied to and answered your own question, while ignoring questions put to you by other posters.
Sad? Why? Too much information for you? Does that mean you don't look at the information and more importantly look up the scriptures quoted? Are you afraid of what your bible says and that you might learn?
Yes, a little sad. (And cowardly).
89d
@galveston75 saidYou don't answer direct questions put to you about scripture so why complain about others not answering yours?
Sad? Why? Too much information for you? Does that mean you don't look at the information and more importantly look up the scriptures quoted? Are you afraid of what your bible says and that you might learn?
89d
@galveston75 saidWhat about the Archangel Gabriel? Satan was the Archangel of worship. There are clearly other Archangel's beside Michael. There is only One Lord and His name in English is Jesus.
The custom of being called by more than one name is common in many cultures. The same situation occurs with names in the Bible. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also named Israel. (Genesis 35:10) The apostle Peter is named in five different ways—Symeon, Simon, Peter, Cephas, and Simon Peter. (Matthew 10:2; 16:16; John 1:42; Acts 15:7, 14) How can we be sure that Micha ...[text shortened]... Michael, the chief angel, “to the glory of God the Father.”—Philippians 2:11.
Watchtower 4/10
"The Archangel Gabriel is a messenger of God in the Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Gabriel's role varies by religion, but some of his most important duties include:
Christianity: Gabriel announced the birth of Jesus to Mary and John the Baptist to Zechariah. This event is often referred to as the Annunciation.
Judaism: Gabriel helped Daniel and was a warrior angel for God. He was also sent to Daniel to explain a vision and communicate a prediction.
Islam: Gabriel dictated the verses of the Qur'an to the Prophet Muhammad.
Gabriel is mentioned in the Hebrew Bible, the New Testament, the Quran, and the Kitáb-i-Aqdas. His feast day is celebrated on September 29."
89d
@KingDavid403 saidCorrect, and you dont even need to go to the Quran. In the writings of the Holy Books kept by the Jews there are many more stories which if read can clear up loads of misconceptions. The bible does not contain everything. In the Book of Enoch, 7 archangels are named - Michael, Uriel, Raguel, Raphael, Sariel, Gabriel, and Remiel. In the original Greek Septuagint there is the Book of Tobit, which names Remiel as an archangel.
What about the Archangel Gabriel? Satan was the Archangel of worship. There are clearly other Archangel's beside Michael. There is only One Lord and His name in English is Jesus.
"The Archangel Gabriel is a messenger of God in the Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Gabriel's role varies by religion, but some of his most important duties includ ...[text shortened]... , the New Testament, the Quran, and the Kitáb-i-Aqdas. His feast day is celebrated on September 29."
This is all signs of ignorance on the part of Watchtower. If they spent more time researching, instead of boasting that they are Gods chosen, maybe they can find the truth. God has obviously abandoned these jokers and left them to their own devices.
@galveston75 saidIf Jesus never did it then it can mean one of two things:
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
As far as I know, there are no scriptures that say that Jesus told anyone that he was also the angel Michael. But that does not mean that everything Jesus spoke of was written down and was printed in the Bible.
He had many available times in the years with his apostles that to teach. So I was not there to be able to answer one way or the other.
- It is not correct
- It is irrelevant.
Either one demonstrates the stupidity of your religion.
89d
@galveston75 saidWrong.
Sad? Why? Too much information for you? Does that mean you don't look at the information and more importantly look up the scriptures quoted? Are you afraid of what your bible says and that you might learn?
People have read the information.
We dont accept it.
Its nonsensical.
What is weird is the fact that you cannot see that it is nonsense.
89d
@galveston75 saidAre these behaviours only applicable to members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion, or can anyone follow these commands and still be recognised by Jehovah as one of “his people”?
So sad there is so much unsettling talk and so many un scriptural attacks here. A few scriptures to consider on what Jehovah requires of his people:
Identifying marks of Jehovah's people:
1 Peter 2:17
17 Honor men of all sorts, have love for the whole association of brothers, be in fear of God, ( Jehovah ) honor the king. ( Jesus )
John 13:34,35
34 I am givin ...[text shortened]... ese and have hatred towards one's who do, you may be in trouble with your standing with Jehovah God?
@Rajk999 saidIn the original Greek Septuagint there is the Book of Tobit,
Correct, and you dont even need to go to the Quran. In the writings of the Holy Books kept by the Jews there are many more stories which if read can clear up loads of misconceptions. The bible does not contain everything. In the Book of Enoch, 7 archangels are named - Michael, Uriel, Raguel, Raphael, Sariel, Gabriel, and Remiel. In the original Greek Septuagint there is ...[text shortened]... ey can find the truth. God has obviously abandoned these jokers and left them to their own devices.
The Book of Tobit was in the Christian Bible until Protestant's in the 1600's began to remove the Apocrypha books from the Bible. Personally, I disagree with their removal. Any Catholic version of the Bible still has some of the Apocrypha books in them today; including The Book of Tobit.
"AI Overview…
"The Protestant Church's removal of the Apocrypha from the Bible was a gradual process that took place over the course of several centuries and involved multiple groups and organizations:
16th century
Protestant Reformers removed a large section of the Old Testament that they considered incompatible with their theology. They called these writings "Apocrypha" and believed they were not inspired Scripture.
1600s
The British Puritan revolution led to changes in how publishers handled the Apocrypha. The Westminster Confession of Faith, written during the British Civil Wars, excluded the Apocrypha from the canon.
1821
Haldane and William Thorpe led a campaign against Bibles that included the Apocrypha, funded by British sources.
1825
The British and Foreign Bible Society standardized the practice of excluding the Apocrypha from the Bible.
Today
English Bibles with the Apocrypha are becoming more popular again, often printed as intertestamental books. The Revised Common Lectionary, used by many mainline Protestants, includes readings from the Apocrypha in its liturgical calendar."
89d
@KingDavid403 saidGood information. I believe in reading anything and everything available to the Jews at that time, and everything that was in the Septuagint. Im not a modern bible worshipper, and not interested in various translations especially when a church like the JWs do it. The bible of the Apostles was seriously messed around with.
In the original Greek Septuagint there is the Book of Tobit,
The Book of Tobit was in the Christian Bible until Protestant's in the 1600's began to remove the Apocrypha books from the Bible. Personally, I disagree with their removal. Any Catholic version of the Bible still has the Apocrypha books in them today.
"AI Overview…
"The Protestant Church's re ...[text shortened]... used by many mainline Protestants, includes readings from the Apocrypha in its liturgical calendar."