Luke 12:48

@philokalia said
No.

And your question doesn't bother anyone because you don't accurately understand or describe the beliefs of Christians on this

This is a very big handicap in your understanding of Christianity.

@fmf said
But you believe that Buddhists who go to their grave having "rejected" your religion are going to be tortured, right? I understand it pretty well.

There'll be Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. in heaven due to the goodness of their hearts and purity of their intentions, and the inclination of their hearts towards God. I think this all depends on their own concepts of repentance as well. I think their striving to do better and wanting a way to be forgiven for their shortcomings, while simultaneously being gracious towards their own existence, will be important keys for them. Ultimately, they will be judged with a lower standard than Christians, and through that standard and the spirit of their selves, they can gain entrance into the Kingdom of God. This is an interesting excerpt:

Does this mean that all now outside the Church will go to hell? No. Bishop Kallistos Ware suggests that "While there is no division between a `visible' and an 'invisible' Church yet there may be members of the Church who are not visibly such, but whose membership is known to God alone. If anyone is saved, he must in some sense be a member of the Church; in what sense we cannot always say" (The Orthodox Church, p. 248, 1993 edition). Christ our God may be working in others in ways unknown to us and even to them, to bring them to salvation. And in due time, perhaps not till after death, they may recognize God and accept Christ and be united to His Body the Church-so that they can be saved.


https://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/christianity/orthodox/2005/03/do-all-non-orthodox-people-go-to-hell.aspx

Here is some great analysis (by a blog commentator, lol) concerning St. Justin Martyr's view on this, which I believe is very important:

On the one hand, they have personal sin. On the other, they can also have Baptism of desire.

[...] St. Justin Martyr, in his First Apology, argues that Socrates was a Christian — he seems to have in mind something like a Baptism of desire. His broader argument is that what the Law was for the Jews (a preparation for Christ, and a partial revelation of God), Philosophy was for the Greeks (by introducing them to reason, and thus, the Logos, who would take on flesh as Jesus Christ). In this, Socrates is the Greek version of someone like Abraham. Justin makes this point about Socrates twice: first, in chapter 5, where he talks about how the evils of paganism were evident to those who followed Logos, like Socrates:

“For not only among the Greeks did reason (Logos) prevail to condemn these things through Socrates, but also among the Barbarians were they condemned by Reason (or the Word, the Logos) Himself, who took shape, and became man, and was called Jesus Christ…”

Then again, in chapter 46, he argues:

“We have been taught that Christ is the first-born of God, and we have declared above that He is the Word of whom every race of men were partakers; and those who lived reasonably are Christians, even though they have been thought atheists; as, among the Greeks, Socrates and Heraclitus, and men like them; and among the barbarians, Abraham, and Ananias, and Azarias, and Misael, and Elias, and many others whose actions and names we now decline to recount, because we know it would be tedious.”

Now, we haven’t exactly rushed out to canonize Socrates, so it’s important to remember that this is the opinion of a great Saint, but not necessarily the Church. Still, I find Justin’s argument fascinating food for thought (and reasonable grounds for hoping for the salvation even of those who don’t appear to be Catholic).


(This whole website also has a great deal about the Catholic concept of Limbo which I have heard that St. Justin Martyr believed in strongly, and he is a Saint of our Church, but he does not define what we believe🙂

http://shamelesspopery.com/where-do-unbaptized-babies-go-when-they-die/

During my own walk with God, a nun who has blessed me with a fraction of her great wisdom, also talked about Socrates as having within him a voice of conscience that was provided by God, and because he listened to it, it is very proepr for us to hope he is in heaven. Indeed, assuming that the account found in the Apology of Socrates is correct, we have every reason to believe that he was in the good graces of God...

It could thus be said that people who are in ignorance of Christ but use reason and exercise love in such a way as to desire Christ and Christ's message have the baptism of desire. The Baptism of Desire is not a doctrine of Orthodoxy, but it is a concept that is still valid when understanding the nature of repentance and salvation, IMO....

@divegeester said
@Philokalia

There'll be Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. in heaven due to the goodness of their hearts and purity of their intentions, and the inclination of their hearts towards God.

What Bible scriptures are you basing this on?

@divegeester said
@Philokalia
[quote]The fate of what hell is like is described in the link from the St. Andrew's Greek Orthodox Church, more or less. God returns in judgment, and His uncreated light is like a fire, which burns away the impurities from those who are His sheep, and is the glowing warmth of his love for eternity, but to those that have juxtaposed themselves against God, it ...[text shortened]... tone I guess!!

Who is “St Andrew”?
Why should anyone take any doctrinal notice of what he said?

Andrew the Apostle (Greek: Ἀνδρέας; Coptic: ⲁⲛⲇⲣⲉⲁⲥ, Andreas; from the late 1st century BC – mid to late 1st century AD), also known as Saint Andrew and referred to in the Orthodox tradition as the First-Called (Greek: Πρωτόκλητος, Prōtoklētos), was a Christian Apostle and the brother of Saint Peter.[4]

...

Saint Andrew was born, according to the Christian tradition, in 6 BC in Galilee.[6] The New Testament states that Andrew was the brother of Simon Peter,[7] and likewise a son of John, or Jonah. He was born in the village of Bethsaida on the Sea of Galilee. "The first striking characteristic of Andrew is his name: it is not Hebrew, as might have been expected, but Greek, indicative of a certain cultural openness in his family that cannot be ignored. We are in Galilee, where the Greek language and culture are quite present."[8]

Both he and his brother Peter were fishermen by trade, hence the tradition that Jesus called them to be his disciples by saying that he will make them "fishers of men" (Greek: ἁλιεῖς ἀνθρώπων, halieis anthrōpōn).[9] At the beginning of Jesus' public life, they were said to have occupied the same house at Capernaum.

In the Gospel of Matthew (Matt 4:18–22) and in the Gospel of Mark (Mark 1:16–20) Simon Peter and Andrew were both called together to become disciples of Jesus and "fishers of men". These narratives record that Jesus was walking along the shore of the Sea of Galilee, observed Simon and Andrew fishing, and called them to discipleship.

@divegeester said
“Bias”

Tell me again about why you believe it ok to be “unequally yoked” in a relationship?

Let us also all take a moment to admire how the bulk of the posts on page 4 are one liners from Dive & FMF dryly mocking me, lol.

And these are the guys who will lead the next moral crusade when someone uses an analogy with drunk in it because that person will be doing the worst ad hom ever!

@philokalia said
Based on Luke 12:48, and the other statements that I provided from theologians and Saints...

We could enumerate the quotations further if you wanted. It isn't that difficult.

@philokalia said
... Who is St. Andrew?

[quote]Andrew the Apostle (Greek: Ἀνδρέας; Coptic: ⲁⲛⲇⲣⲉⲁⲥ, Andreas; from the late 1st century BC – mid to late 1st century AD), also known as Saint Andrew and referred to in the Orthodox tradition as the First-Called (Greek: Πρωτόκλητος, Prōtoklētos), was a Christian Apostle and the brother of Saint Peter.[4]

...

Saint Andrew was born, acco ...[text shortened]... ]who is St. Andrew and why should anyone notice[/i] is pretty remarkable. I'll just live it at that.

@philokalia said
So you don't believe in hell, you don't believe in the Trinity... but you are deeply concerned that a Christian would be in a relationship with a non-Christian?

This is rich.

@philokalia said
Let us also all take a moment to admire how the bulk of the posts on page 4 are one liners from Dive & FMF dryly mocking me, lol.

@divegeester said
Luke 12:48 New International Version (NIV)
But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

Here’s the scripture, are you able provide an exegesis which goes someway to supporting you ...[text shortened]... e “saints” as you call them, I’m not interested in another persons opinion, I’m interested in yours.

@divegeester said
No I’m interested in your duplicity.

Is your girlfriend a Christian?

@philokalia said
This isn't accurate at all.

How can you say that you "debate" and "discuss" things when you do not actually confront the original statements and their content, but instead attack a strawman.

It's like you do not even care that I have taken the time to provide a response to what you have been saying earlier -- you prefer the strawman. So you just boldly ...[text shortened]... cept that is still valid when understanding the nature of repentance and salvation, IMO.... [/quote]

@philokalia said
Let us also all take a moment to admire how the bulk of the posts on page 4 are one liners from Dive & FMF dryly mocking me, lol.

@fmf said
So you don't believe that Buddhists who go to their grave having "rejected" your religion ~ Christ and all the rest of it ~ are going to be tortured? Is that correct?

Do those you (or your God) see as 'good' Buddhists go to "Heaven" then?