Matthew 24

Originally posted by Suzianne
The only things I see 'coming and going' are the specific date-centered predictions. Predictions are easy, anyone can make a prediction. Prophecy is another story, it is given of God. The foretold events in the Bible can be treated like any other passages, some get it right, some get it wrong and this often marks the differences between denominations. I ...[text shortened]... make the wrong choices, and at a time when our choices will either save our souls or condemn us.

I watched quite a bit more. Saw the last portion.

Recommend the Recovery Version New Testament with its good translation and excellent study footnotes which can be obtained free at -

Bibles For America -

http://biblesforamerica.org/

Yoctobyte, You know that Christ is returning for a corporate entity which the Bible calls the Bride. This Bride must be a mature corporate woman. A youngster or a teenager will not do.

So spiritually the more important "sign" of Christ's soon appearing again is the maturing of at least a critical mass of believers across the earth to if a maturity which will "woo" the Bridegroom back.

We can consider all the things of dealing with Antichrist and his armies as a newlywed couple taking out the garbage. The main thing is their enjoyment of one another.

Originally posted by sonship
Yoctobyte, You know that Christ is returning for a corporate entity which the Bible calls the Bride. This Bride must be a mature corporate woman. A youngster or a teenager will not do.

So spiritually the more important "sign" of Christ's soon appearing again is the maturing of at least a critical mass of believers across the earth to if a maturity whic ...[text shortened]... s as a newlywed couple taking out the garbage. The main thing is their enjoyment of one another.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Lets see how much of that is in the Bible?

Christ is returning for a corporate entity
[b]Not in the Bible

which the Bible calls the Bride.
Wrong. the bride of Christ is the New Jerusalem as clearly stated in Revelation. The saints are called THE BODY OF CHRIST.

[i]This Bride must be a mature corporate woman. A youngster ...[text shortened]... ever say is from Christ so why start following Christ now .. carry on with your false doctrines.[/b]

Originally posted by checkbaiter
In the book of Revelation, the bride of Christ is specifically identified as the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 21:9-11
(9) One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
(10) And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great a ...[text shortened]... eserves forever and ever.

http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/who-is-the-bride-of-christ

Originally posted by Rajk999

Lets see how much of that is in the Bible?

me:
Christ is returning for a corporate entity
Rajk999:
Not in the Bible

" Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her." (Eph. 5:21)

"That He might sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing of the water in the word, that He might present the church to Himself glorious, not having spot or wrinkle or any such things, but that she would be holy and without blemish." (vs.26,27)

which the Bible calls the Bride.
Wrong. the bride of Christ is the New Jerusalem as clearly stated in Revelation. The saints are called THE BODY OF CHRIST.

" You yourselves testify of me that I said, I am not the Christ, but I have been sent before Him. He who has the BRIDE is the BRIDEGROOM; but the friend of the BRIDEGROOM, who stands and hears him, rejoices with joy because of the BRIDEGROOM'S [Christ's] voice.

This joy of mine therefore is made full. He must increase and I must decrease." (John 3:28-30)

me:
This Bride must be a mature corporate woman. A youngster or a teenager will not do.
No such thing in the Bible

So spiritually the more important "sign" of Christ's soon appearing again is the maturing of at least a critical mass of believers across the earth to if a maturity which will "woo" the Bridegroom back.

Rajk999
Nonsense. The state of the earth has nothing to do with wooing Christ .

. what garbage !! In fact if anything the opposite is the case as Jesus stated : Luke 18:8 ... when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? Jesus is not expecting to find faith on earth at this return and neither is he waiting for any critical mass.

me:
We can consider all the things of dealing with Antichrist and his armies as a newlywed couple taking out the garbage. The main thing is their enjoyment of one another.
What ??

Originally posted by checkbaiter

In the book of Revelation, the bride of Christ is specifically identified as the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 21:9-11
(9) One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
(10) And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
(11) It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.

The text refers to the New Jerusalem as both the “bride” and “wife” of Christ. Of course, the wife of Christ is not the city, but the city figuratively represents all the people who live there.

Thus, in the book of Revelation we see that the wife of Christ is neither Israel nor the Christian Church, but rather is every saved person who has ever lived, all of whom will live eternally in the New Jerusalem.

"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the twelve names of twelve apostles of the Lamb." (Rev. 21:14)

'It had a great and high wall and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names inscribed, which are the names of the twelve tribes of Israel ..." (v.12)

Portraying all the saved people as the wife of Christ shows us the love and devotion that will exist into eternity between Christ and the people he died for.

A. Jerusalem Killing the Prophets

Verse 37 says, “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!” Jerusalem and her children were chosen by God to fulfill His purpose. However, when God sent His prophets to them, they killed them.

B. The Lord as a
Hen

Desiring to Gather Her Children
Together under Her Wings

Verse 37 also says, “How often I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her young under her wings, and you would not!” It has always been God Himself who cared for Jerusalem, like a bird fluttering over her young (Isa. 31:5; Deut. 32:11-12). Hence, when the Lord Jesus said, “I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her young under her wings,” He indicated that He was God Himself. The Lord is like a loving bird, fluttering, brooding, over her young. Often He desired to gather the children of Jerusalem together, but they were not willing. As the Lord Jesus was declaring this final word to them, He was still like a loving hen, stretching out His wings to brood over the little ones. But they were not willing to be gathered under His wings.
Also, we must recall that the Old Testament prophecies foretold that God would also be married to these saved people, and as God’s wife they would also give Him the love and devotion that He deserves forever and ever.

Originally posted by sonship

Lets see how much of that is in the Bible?

me:
Christ is returning for a corporate entity
Rajk999:
Not in the Bible

You have never heard of the book [b]Ephesians ?

" Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her." (Eph. 5:21)

Did you see that blind ...[text shortened]... to have some talk with checkbaiter who is more conversant on these elementary matters at least.[/b]

Originally posted by sonship
Checkbaiter, You understand more than Rajk999. But I have some comments.

[b]In the book of Revelation, the bride of Christ is specifically identified as the New Jerusalem.

This is good so far. Amen!

[quote]
Revelation 21:9-11
(9) One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came an ...[text shortened]... ection 4) (my bolding)

http://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=16A94402C8[/b]

Here the difference between the New Jerusalem and the saints/church is made clear:

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. (Revelation 19:7-9 KJV)

[b] Two points :
1. The wife = New Jerusalem is arrayed in the righteousness of the saints. In other words the saints adorn the bride/wife/New Jerusalem.
2. The saints are called to the marriage supper of Christ. They are NOT marrying Christ... just called to the feast.

The body of Christ is NOT the same as the bride of Christ.

And again even when Jesus gives the parables it is clear that the saints are invited guests to a marriage feast and not a bride:

The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. (Matthew 22:2-4 KJV)

Called to the wedding feast as a guest.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

I don't see what difference it makes... To me it means the same thing

" But you have come forward to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem; and to myriads of angels, to the universal gathering, and to the church of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens;

and to God the Judge of all;
and to the spirits of righteous men who have been made perfect;
and to Jesus, the Mediator of a new covenant;
and to the blood of sprinkling,
which speaks something better than that of Abel." (Hebrews 12:22-24)

me:

The Old Testament saints TOO were under the love and devotion of Christ. Christ is God incarnate - God become a man

checbaiter:
I disagree of course. More accurately, The old Testament saints were under the love and devotion of God and were saved " looking forward" to the Christ yet to come. They were saved by their faith looking forward to the yet unborn Messiah.

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her young under her wings, and you would not!”

I agree that they were looking forward to Messiah. But Messiah is God incarnate.
So then you are completely ignoring Matthew 23:37. I am sorry but Matthew 23:37 says what it says. But you seem to choose to completely ignore it.


What am I ignoring? You think what Jesus is saying makes him God? Could this have not been a prophecy? Why do you Trinitarians jump at every word trying to make Jesus God? Why is this such an aggressive part of your doctrine?

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and mankind, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all—the testimony given at the proper time. For this I was appointed a herald and an apostle (I speak the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in trust and truth.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
[b]
I agree that they were looking forward to Messiah. But Messiah is God incarnate.
So then you are completely ignoring Matthew 23:37. I am sorry but Matthew 23:37 says what it says. But you seem to choose to completely ignore it.


What am I ignoring? You think what Jesus is saying makes him God? Could this have not been a prophecy? Why do you ...[text shortened]... n and then he became God again unless we brutally twist the word of God to suit a biased belief.[/b]