15 Dec 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhere I live, mind you, the rest of Sweden I don't know much about. Where I live we have 5 to 10 centigrades. Weird if you ask me. But let's not go off-topic further.
Sweden is warm??? PK is a rock star and Sweden is warm in December? ahhh, is
there no justice anywhere.
My point was that if galvestone had the intention to stop posting, why is he still here debating?
15 Dec 11
Originally posted by FabianFnaswell, he feels better, he was heartened by many kind sentiments and expressions of
Where I live, mind you, the rest of Sweden I don't know much about. Where I live we have 5 to 10 centigrades. Weird if you ask me. But let's not go off-topic further.
My point was that if galvestone had the intention to stop posting, why is he still here debating?
encouragement.
15 Dec 11
5 edits
Originally posted by galveston75
Yes the "Father" Jehovah created his "son" Jesus. That's why he is called the first of all creation.
God "Jehovah" was not created and he has always existed. Jesus was created but from our viewpoint we have no idea how long he's actually existed but he did have a beginning.
And yes RJH has a very different view of the trinity and one I've never hea ...[text shortened]... humans could obviously see him. Jesus was a man and nothing more while he was on earth.
Yes the "Father" Jehovah created his "son" Jesus. That's why he is called the first of all creation.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)
It does not say that God "created" the Word. It says the Word was with God and WAS God.
When the Apostle John takes up the theme again in his epistle of the Word of life and the Father, he says the Word was the life which was with the Father.
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we beheld and our hands handled, concerning the Word of life
(And the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and report to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us) ... (1 John 1:1,2)
As long as the Father was, the life, the eternal life was with the Father. First John, neither, says that the Father "created" the eternal life that was with Him.
I will not repeat the same debate endlessly with the same heretic. I have explained in the past that though Colossians does say Christ is the Firstborn of all creation ( Col. 1:15) Paul would not mean that Christ, at one point in the past, did NOT exist, and that God CREATED Him.
But since Christ, the Logos that was with God and was God, became flesh, in all creation, no other one has more preeminence and importance - therefore [Christ] - "Who is the image of the invisible God, the Firstborn of all creation, because in Him all things were created ..."
" Who created all things? " , we might ask the Rabbi turned Christian apostle.
"Thus says, Jehovah who redeemed you and formed you from the womb, I am Jehovah who makes all things, Who alone stretches out the heavens, Who spread out the earth (Who was with Me?) " (Isaiah 44:24)
Jehovah .... "WHO ALONE .... stretches out the heavens"
Jehovah the Creator asks "WHO WAS WITH ME?" .
Besides Jehovah, Jehovah says, there is no God -
"Thus says Jehovah the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts.
I am the First and I am the Last, And apart from Me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6)
So Jesus Christ, the Firstborn of all creation is Jehovah God incarnate to be a man. Before He became a man the Word was God Who ALONE stretched forth the heavens.
15 Dec 11
Originally posted by FabianFnasI'm sure I will. It really wasn't a mistake as I did need a little brake but I should have just taken the brake and been done with it. It's for sure a few here really jumped on this and let me have it. Oh well I can't please them all.
He changed his mind. He made a wrong decision and corrected it. He will make more and correct them too.
15 Dec 11
Originally posted by jaywillOk that's your viewpoint just as RJH has his. It were really the truth of Jehovah and Jesus it would seem all the trinitairians facts and explinations would be the same.Yes the "Father" Jehovah created his "son" Jesus. That's why he is called the first of all creation.
[b]"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)
It does not say that God "created" the Word. It says the Word was with God and WAS God.
When the Apostle John takes up the them ...[text shortened]... He became a man the Word was God Who ALONE stretched forth the heavens.[/b]
I've heard hundreds of versions of it for as long as I cared to listen and very few versions are the same. Oh well but at least you guys try.
The usual answer that's the norm is "it's a mystery and we just have to have faith." I've even had ministers and priest give me that answer.
16 Dec 11
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75ask him why he ignores not only Greek idiomatic structure of John 1:1 and
Ok that's your viewpoint just as RJH has his. It were really the truth of Jehovah and Jesus it would seem all the trinitairians facts and explinations would be the same.
I've heard hundreds of versions of it for as long as I cared to listen and very few versions are the same. Oh well but at least you guys try.
The usual answer that's the norm is "it' ...[text shortened]... and we just have to have faith." I've even had ministers and priest give me that answer.
fundamental English grammar when he erroneously asserts that the word is God, for
clearly the term 'theos', which he would have us believe is the almighty is in fact a
predicate noun used to describe a quality about the Word, three lines of well founded
and solid reasoning which the trinitarians have ignored to produce their God
dishonouring doctrine and biased translations, they have truly made the word of God
invalid because of their traditions.
16 Dec 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYeah...what you said. 🙂
ask him why he ignores not only Greek idiomatic structure of John 1:1 and
fundamental English grammar when he erroneously asserts that the word is God, for
clearly the term 'theos', which he would have us believe is the almighty is in fact a
predicate noun used to describe a quality about the Word, three lines of well founded
and solid reason ...[text shortened]... ased translations, they have truly made the word of God
invalid because of their traditions.
16 Dec 11
Originally posted by galveston75actually his is a near textbook explanaition. Nearly every denomination would agree with it.
Ok that's your viewpoint just as RJH has his. It were really the truth of Jehovah and Jesus it would seem all the trinitairians facts and explinations would be the same.
I've heard hundreds of versions of it for as long as I cared to listen and very few versions are the same. Oh well but at least you guys try.
The usual answer that's the norm is "it' ...[text shortened]... and we just have to have faith." I've even had ministers and priest give me that answer.
16 Dec 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieyour "interpretation" has not been substaintiated by any legitimate scholars
ask him why he ignores not only Greek idiomatic structure of John 1:1 and
fundamental English grammar when he erroneously asserts that the word is God, for
clearly the term 'theos', which he would have us believe is the almighty is in fact a
predicate noun used to describe a quality about the Word, three lines of well founded
and solid reason ...[text shortened]... ased translations, they have truly made the word of God
invalid because of their traditions.
16 Dec 11
Originally posted by jaywillThis is very telling because John 1:1 says the Word was with God and was God then V 14 says and the word became flesh. This is to prove and contrast how the word became flesh. It's beautiful but some will deny Christ his deity.
Good one.
Seriously, I would not put it exactly as RJHinds did.
The Word became flesh [b](John 1:14). There is no question that FLESH is an item of the creation of God.
If the WORD who was God became flesh, then God was incarnated in His creation. The Creator and the creation became united.
But we've been through this before. Incarnation ...[text shortened]... N.
This is Jesus Christ our Savior God, the Son of the Father. That's the Bible speaking.[/b]
Manny
16 Dec 11
Originally posted by galveston75Go take a break from RHP Forum. I did. I needed it. It was healthy. Just quit for a while, then return, and see things from new angles.
I'm sure I will. It really wasn't a mistake as I did need a little brake but I should have just taken the brake and been done with it. It's for sure a few here really jumped on this and let me have it. Oh well I can't please them all.