My pastor is a secret Atheist

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Did Jesus turn down my request for a relationship?

Did you have a relationship with Jesus Christ or no? No, He doesn't turn any away
that really come to Him, but as you've more than likely read too, not everyone
who says Lord, Lord belongs to Him, they may talk a good game, they can show
you all the reasons they are good enough, but that is all them not Jesus Christ.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Did you have a relationship with Jesus Christ or no? No, He doesn't turn any away
that really come to Him, but as you've more than likely read too, not everyone
who says Lord, Lord belongs to Him, they may talk a good game, they can show
you all the reasons they are good enough, but that is all them not Jesus Christ.
Kelly

Do you accept that it is possible for someone to believe fully, but then later not believe?

Originally posted by FMF
Do you accept that it is possible for someone to believe fully, but then later not believe?

I believe one can think he believes fully, but if he lacks faith, his beliefs can easily change. Jehovah's Witnesses are an example of those that have faith in the wrong belief and it is hard to change, but it is not impossible. But even if one has the correct belief, they must have the faith to endure to the end to be saved.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I believe one can think he believes fully, but if he lacks faith, his beliefs can easily change.

So you think if someone stops believing, they never really believed, but only thought they did?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Jehovah's Witnesses are an example of those that have faith in the wrong belief and it is hard to change, but it is not impossible. But even if one has the correct belief, they must have the faith to endure to the end to be saved.

This has nothing to do with the post of mine you were responding to. Jehovah's Witnesses believe what they believe and whether you think it is "hard [for them] to change" their beliefs to what you believe is completely irrelevant.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Did you have a relationship with Jesus Christ or no? No, He doesn't turn any away
that really come to Him, but as you've more than likely read too, not everyone
who says Lord, Lord belongs to Him, they may talk a good game, they can show
you all the reasons they are good enough, but that is all them not Jesus Christ.
Kelly

No, I did not think what I did made me 'good enough'. I believed much as you do. I thought I was a sinner who needed salvation. I told you what I did not to blow my own horn but rather to convey the impression that my beliefs were sincere.

Do you think I would have left the faith if I believed that Jesus had actually spoken to me? If this is what you mean by 'personal relationship' then I did not have it. But it was not for lack of trying. I did not expect to have a relationship with Jesus/God based on the things I did or did not do for him. I really believed that all you had to do was ask with a sincere heart and you would receive it.

So again I ask, did Jesus reject my offer of a relationship?

Originally posted by galveston75
So why did they lose their beliefs? Were they false, empty, held no future, misleading, not in the Bible?

JW's lose their faith too; or are you suggesting your particular brand of dogma is impervious to doubt?

Originally posted by FMF
So you think if someone stops believing, they never really believed, but only thought they did?

Yes. But I am just speculating on the matter.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I believe one can think he believes fully, but if he lacks faith, his beliefs can easily change. Jehovah's Witnesses are an example of those that have faith in the wrong belief and it is hard to change, but it is not impossible. But even if one has the correct belief, they must have the faith to endure to the end to be saved.

What I find strange about your position is the idea that you are saved if you have faith for one year if it happens to be the LAST year of your life, but not if you have faith for every year BUT the last.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
No, I did not think what I did made me 'good enough'. I believed much as you do. I thought I was a sinner who needed salvation. I told you what I did not to blow my own horn but rather to convey the impression that my beliefs were sincere.

Do you think I would have left the faith if I believed that Jesus had actually spoken to me? If this is what you ...[text shortened]... rt and you would receive it.

So again I ask, did Jesus reject my offer of a relationship?

No. Christ will not reject anyone that comes to him with a sincere heart. But you have to maintain your faith and pray earnestly and read His words in the Holy Bible. He may talk to you through those words. Not all people hear an audible voice, or have dreams or visions. So you must learn to be content with any relationship you may get and then maybe you will be surprised one day with more.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
What I find strange about your position is the idea that you are saved if you have faith for one year if it happens to be the LAST year of your life, but not if you have faith for every year BUT the last.

I guess those people who worked for the master all day thought it was strange that the ones that came at the last hour to work got the same pay they did too.
But they had no say with what the master did with his money.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I guess those people who worked for the master all day thought it was strange that the ones that came at the last hour to work got the same pay they did too.
But they had no say with what the master did with his money.

They may not have gotten paid any more money, but they didn't get fired. 😛

Originally posted by RJHinds
I guess those people who worked for the master all day thought it was strange that the ones that came at the last hour to work got the same pay they did too.
But they had no say with what the master did with his money.

I think you know that's not what swissgambit is saying.

Originally posted by FMF
Do you accept that it is possible for someone to believe fully, but then later not believe?

Yes, but believing isn't what makes one a Christian the devil believes.
Kelly

Originally posted by SwissGambit
No, I did not think what I did made me 'good enough'. I believed much as you do. I thought I was a sinner who needed salvation. I told you what I did not to blow my own horn but rather to convey the impression that my beliefs were sincere.

Do you think I would have left the faith if I believed that Jesus had actually spoken to me? If this is what you ...[text shortened]... rt and you would receive it.

So again I ask, did Jesus reject my offer of a relationship?

Again, bottom line YOU ANSWER this one simple question...did you yes or no
actually have a relationship with Jesus Christ? You believing there is a god
is meaningless to being a Christian there are lots of people who believe that
who are not Christian. If you didn't have one you never were, if you did why
do you deny Him now?
Kelly