09 Nov 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYes, you are. You're going to have to go back to the beginning of this thread and follow the progression of posts and replies to see where I'm going.
wait a minute, i thought that Christ came to die for our sins, that we can get forgiveness for our sins on the basis of Christs sacrifice, is this not the case or am i missing something?
But you are exactly right. Christ came to die for our sins. It is on the basis of what Jesus did on the cross on our behalf that makes it possible for us to be saved. There is nothing we can do to earn salvation. Any attempt to do a "work" to receive the free gift of eternal life that Jesus bought for us with His own blood is a slap in His face.
Salvation as a gift of God's grace is not to be confused with "doing good works" out of gratitude and love for the saviour.
09 Nov 08
Originally posted by josephwSo, if I believe right now and only right now, I'm saved, even if I stop believing?
There is little point in debating this issue with you since you throw out any books of the Bible I would reference to prove my position.
Unfortunately you think that you can act as an independent agent in your effort to gain salvation.
You don't seem to realize how hopeless your condition is. Until you are saved, you are lost. If you are lost, how are ...[text shortened]... .
Any conditions one seeks to meet for forgiveness of sin is a slap in the face of Jesus.
Nemesio
09 Nov 08
Originally posted by josephwLet's say that I believe with all of my being at this time that Jesus died for the sins of the world
Do you know that Jesus died for your sins?
Do you know that Jesus was raised from the dead?
Do you believe in a myth?
Will you stop believing under any circumstances?
(which include my sins) and that He was raised by the Father from the dead. Further, given that
I believe it, I have no reason to expect at this time that I will stop believing it.
Am I saved?
Let's say, in a year, because of a catastrophic accident in which a drunk driver harms someone that
I love on the same day that I lost my job and my house and property was burned down, I decide
that God is a jerk and curse His name and stop believing.
Am I saved?
Nemesio
09 Nov 08
Originally posted by josephwBut you said it's not a gift; it's contingent on belief. Gifts are not contingent upon things. They
Salvation as a gift of God's grace is not to be confused with "doing good works" out of gratitude and love for the saviour.
are given despite contingencies.
So which is it? Is salvation contingent on belief or is it a gift? It can't be both.
Nemesio
09 Nov 08
Originally posted by NemesioIf you have trusted in what Christ has done for you on the cross, that He died for your sins, then you have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and have the Spirit of Christ in you and you are now a new creature.
Let's say that I believe with all of my being at this time that Jesus died for the sins of the world
(which include my sins) and that He was raised by the Father from the dead. Further, given that
I believe it, I have no reason to expect at this time that I will stop believing it.
Am I saved?
Let's say, in a year, because of a catastrophic accident ...[text shortened]... I decide
that God is a jerk and curse His name and stop believing.
Am I saved?
Nemesio
Sorry if this disappoints you, but once one receives the free gift of eternal life, God isn't taking it back. That would make Him a liar.
I have to go now and I may not be back in here for a couple of days, so I won't be able to reply to any further posts by you tonight.
I'll check back later to see if you still want to talk about this.
09 Nov 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydif this is the case why did the Christ state that he who has 'endured', to the end will be saved, surely if one is in a saved state and always will be there is no need to endure, cause your saved regardless and also the apostle states that he has 'run the fine fight of the faith, showing that to remain a Christian was a struggle, this type of thinking is what seems to negate the idea of once saved always saved, don't you think?
It's a gift. And it's a mystery. And I believe once you have it, ya can't lose it. And that's it 🙂
09 Nov 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI'd sure love to get into this with you tonight, but unfortunately I gotta go.
if this is the case why did the Christ state that he who has 'endured', to the end will be saved, surely if one is in a saved state and always will be there is no need to endure, cause your saved regardless and also the apostle states that he has 'run the fine fight of the faith, showing that to remain a Christian was a struggle, this type of thinking is what seems to negate the idea of once saved always saved, don't you think?
09 Nov 08
If you are not always saved once you believe then would someone please explain the following?
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-to the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1: 13-14
I would say that a guarantee is a guarantee! Am I right?
09 Nov 08
Originally posted by josephw
If you have trusted in what Christ has done for you on the cross, that He died for your sins, then you have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and have the Spirit of Christ in you and you are now a new creature.
Sorry if this disappoints you, but once one receives the free gift of eternal life, God isn't taking it back. That would make Him a liar.
Er. You said 'free gift' again, but you said 'If x, then I receive y.' That's not free. Free means without
contingency. How do you explain this?
So, having been sealed by the Holy Spirit &c &c &c, I can say f$&# God and defecate on the
Bible and murder and rape and everything else but I'm still saved? A 'yes' or 'no' answer will
suffice.
Nemesio
09 Nov 08
Originally posted by whodeyNo. I could still refuse it. But I have to accept the gift.
If salvation is unconditional then it would be forced upon you.
That's a work. The accepting is a work that is required for salvation. So, you believe in a
works-based system after all, you just define it as a single work. Jesus, of course, defined it as
perpetual work.
Nemesio