once saved, always saved????

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Looking at the teachings of Jesus, this scenario is logical. Jesus taught that one is to become righteous, i.e. the embodiment of truth, love, compassion, justice, etc. Jesus taught that righteousness, where one cannot continue to sin, is required for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation". A person who "backslides" was never truly righteous, but merely ...[text shortened]... is "saved".

As for what Christianity teaches...it's more than a bit clumsy.

Fail.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
my concern is that the preceding verse states - [b]to speak injuriously of no one, not to be belligerent, to be reasonable, exhibiting all mildness toward all men. For even we were once senseless, disobedient, being misled, being slaves to various desires and pleasures, carrying on in badness and envy, abhorrent, hating one another,

but natur James states, like a body without animation, for quite clearly, faith without works is dead![/b]

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my concern is that the preceding verse states - to speak injuriously of no one, not to be belligerent, to be reasonable, exhibiting all mildness toward all men. For even we were once senseless, disobedient, being misled, being slaves to various desires and pleasures, carrying on in badness and envy, abhorrent, hating one another,
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You mean like contemptously calling people "Putty Tat, Putty tat, Putty tat"?

Seriously, that is a great passage which I think of very often.

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but naturally of course these works don't really matter, they are not the defining mark of a Christan? after all we are recipients of Holy Spirit, now which one of the 'fruits' of holy spirit gives us license to state that others are ignorant, perhaps its love, joy, maybe peace, could be kindness, perhaps goodness, i know its mildness, faith, self control, long suffering etc etc mmmm, recipients of Holy Spirit, mmmmm, once saved always saved....i don't think so.
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Which fruit? The same fruit which prompted the apostle to write:

"If anyone teaches different things and does not consent to healthy words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the teaching which is according to godliness, he is blinded with pride, understanding nothing, but is deseased with questionings and contentions of words, out of which come envy, strife, slanders, evil suspicions, perpetual wranglings of men corrupt in mind and deprived of the truth ..." (1 Timothy 6:3-5)

The same fruit of the Spirit which prompted Paul to point out that some were "understanding nothing" might prompt a disciple to speak of a false teacher of the Bible being "ignorant".


And my concern which expressed itself as asking "Once Ignorant Always Ignorant ???" was an expression of the Bible's warning about some people "always learning but never able to come to the full knowledge of the truth" (2 Tim. 3:7)

So in turn I ask concerning some posters "Once Ignorant Always Ignorant ???" because some never seem to learn.

Then there are Jehovah's Witnesses whose false teaching spreads like gangrene as Paul discribed the false teachings of Hymenaeus and Philetus who spread their misunderstanding of the resurrection around.

"But avoid profane, vain babblings, for they will advance to more ungodliness, And their word will spread like gangrene, of whom are Hymenaes and Philetus, who concerning the truth have misaimed, saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and overthrow the faith of some." (2 Tim. 2:16,18)

Some posters like Rajk999 and Nemesio and sometime you too, remind me of those seeking to overthrow the faith of some with gangrene like erroneous concepts, such concepts as returning to OT law keeping in the age of grace, or fighting against the complete Deity of Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Fail.

The teachings of Jesus are true and logical. It's unfortunate that so many choose to supercede His teachings with the teachings of others. The teachings of others leave loose ends that are impossible to reconcile with reason and thus have left "Christianity" a highly fractionated religion.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
The teachings of Jesus are true and logical. It's unfortunate that so many choose to supercede His teachings with the teachings of others. The teachings of others leave loose ends that are impossible to reconcile with reason and thus have left "Christianity" a highly fractionated religion.

Crocodile tears.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]================================
my concern is that the preceding verse states - to speak injuriously of no one, not to be belligerent, to be reasonable, exhibiting all mildness toward all men. For even we were once senseless, disobedient, being misled, being slaves to various desires and pleasures, carrying on in badness and envy, abhorrent, hating one the age of grace, or fighting against the complete Deity of Jesus Christ.

i thought i saw a putty cat, i did, i did see a putty cat, jaywill you bad ol putty cat, you aught to be ashamed of yourself, engaging in bigotry and prejudice, you know that there is a law in the uk insight to religious hatred and intolerance, do you not have the humility to admit that you too are guilty of speaking badly at times, of course how could you, you are not like other men, your saved!, you are not like the Jehovah witnesses who gave up their lives in the Nazi concentration camps rather than kill another human nor salute a dictator in obedience to biblical principles, who were sent to gulags and Siberian prison camps rather than compromise to Stalinist hatred, you are not like other men, like black beetle a man of goodwill, warmth and humor, you are not like myself and raj and nemiseo, oh no you are saved! i can hear your prayer now, the prayer of jaywill, 'oh jesus, thankyou that i am not like those other men, raj and robbie and nemiseo, those tax collectors and sinners, thank you that i am saved, surly they will go to hell, and you will keep them alive and burn them perpetually, because you are loving and just'', whatever you like jaywill you can say, but as for self righteousness, religious bigotry, prejudice and hatred, what place does it have in a Christians life? at least we have the humility to admit that we are sometimes wrong, but not you, you are infallible like the pope, infact i think you should change your name, his most illustrious holy eminence, pontificate maximus his reverence jaywill, once saved always saved!

Originally posted by jaywill
Crocodile tears.

Good point! As if ToO's really that sorry eh? God must have made a right hash of furthering the truth through the ages. The devil obviously got the better of him and the truth was squashed and lost. Poor ol God and Jesus , if only they had the power to send the Holy Spirit to cut through all the c***p we would be Ok.

Fortunately we have ToO instead to put us all straight and rescue the truth of Jesus from the clutches of darkness. I'm sure God is very grateful.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ knows and the individual knows .. THANK YOU.

OK ?

How can YOU know?
How can YOU know if Miss X is saved?
You cannot. You cannot. You cannot.
You cannot.
You cannot.
You cannot.
You cannot.
You cannot.
You cannot.
You cannot.


Get it ?
Boy ... you people are DUMB.

YOU CANNOT KNOW IF SOMEONE ELSE IS SAVED !!!

Agreed

.......... but I also cannot know if they are not saved either. If someone professes faith in Christ and is repentant then the Bible teaches that his blood was shed for the remission of sin and that person is put right with God and saved.

I am not in a position to say to that person "you are not saved" , I am called to be optimistic about their salvation , if they are cheating and don't really have faith then they are cheating God (as if that were possible) and that's up to them and their relationship with God , but I cannot judge.

Even though I can't stand George W . I cannot know if deep in his heart he is saved. It's not my place.

My question to you is how do you know if Mrs X is not saved ? And why would you presume she isn't if she has followed a Biblical process of faith and coming to Christ?

Am I really so dumb? I don't think you are dumb at all. I think you are doing yourself a disservice and making yourself look silly. But underneath I trust you have the intelligence to see the gift of grace and salvation by faith that God offers to us in fatherly Love.

Originally posted by Badwater
Really? Always? "Always"? No exceptions?

Still no.

Though I've heard many arguments on both sides, I still must believe in OSAS because of the promise Jesus gave to us that we will have eternal life. Not "you will have eternal life, unless you screw it up..."
If eternal doesn't mean forever, then the whole concept is meaningless to me.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Though I've heard many arguments on both sides, I still must believe in OSAS because of the promise Jesus gave to us that we will have eternal life. Not "you will have eternal life, unless you screw it up..."
If eternal doesn't mean forever, then the whole concept is meaningless to me.

That's exactly what it means. You will have eternal life unless you screw it up. It's that simple.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Looking at the teachings of Jesus, this scenario is logical. Jesus taught that one is to become righteous, i.e. the embodiment of truth, love, compassion, justice, etc. Jesus taught that righteousness, where one cannot continue to sin, is required for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation". A person who "backslides" was never truly righteous, but merely ...[text shortened]... is "saved".

As for what Christianity teaches...it's more than a bit clumsy.

However, a person who becomes righteous, even after decades of sin, is "saved". --------ToO----------------------

But it the middle of his sins he finds within him the ability to repentand be saved. CS Lewis pointed out that only a man who has righteousness in him can repent because if he had no righteousness he simply wouldn't bother.

However , although takes a righteous man to repent and humble himself , only a man who is unrighteous has naything worth repenting about. Therefore , the waters are always a bit muddier than we think.

Your polarised mind might find this hard to understand though because you seem to have a concept of salvation based on a man never sinning again and never having to confess or repent again.

Originally posted by knightmeister
..Am I really so dumb? ...

Yes.

Originally posted by jaywill
Crocodile tears.

Care to elaborate?

If nothing else you managed to double the word output of Nemesio whilst simultaneously writing an extremely short post for you 🙂

Originally posted by Rajk999
Yes.

I didn't want to say it at the time but when I was writing that comment I did guess that you would respond exactly in this way. Why do you prefer predictable simplistic responses to a more intelligent adult response which engages with the issues.


You are just continuing to make yourself look very silly. Anyone looking at this will know that I have got you by the gonads and that basically you have run out of steam and can't think of how to counter this argument.

The Bible clearly talks about being pure in heart and showing love and compassion to others. How can this happen if one is only performing compassionate acts with the intention of saving oneself from damnation by a God who you have to fear and in whose presence you have no assurance?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Care to elaborate?

If nothing else you managed to double the word output of Nemesio whilst simultaneously writing an extremely short post for you 🙂

You know what he meant. Stop pretending you don't. You don't believe in God and you don't have any interest in Christianity other than to slag it off.

Originally posted by knightmeister
You know what he meant. Stop pretending you don't. You don't believe in God and you don't have any interest in Christianity other than to slag it off.

I think he is a crypto atheist.