Pagan basis of the trinity.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
(Matthew 12:30)  He that is not on my side is against me, and he that does not gather
with me scatters.

It seems to me that those who are not actively engaged in gathering with Christ are his
enemies, or is this scripture saying something other than the obvious.

So when are you going to get on the side of Jesus and honor him with
worship and praise as you do the Father?

Originally posted by RJHinds
So when are you going to get on the side of Jesus and honor him with
worship and praise as you do the Father?

i honour the Christ, i give glory to the Christ, he is my King, i worship no one but the father. Can you think of a single instance where Christ directed worship towards himself, no neither can I. But to the point at hand, when are you going to stop scattering the disciples of the Christ and start gathering them, for until you do so, you remain an enemy of the Christ.

Originally posted by divegeester
So this is your justification for calling another Christian "the enemy" is it. This is exactly my point; your interpretation of this scripture is that the if someone is not in the JW organisation then they are not "gathering" with Christ. Can't you see how cultish that is?

Your mistake is that you think Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian because
they talk about Christ. But they refuse to acknowledge Jesus as equal to
God and give Him the honor He deserves through their worship and praise
as they would the Father. And as Jesus has said, "He who does not honor
the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." (John 5:23)
They are no more Christian than Jews or Muslims.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Your mistake is that you think Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian because
they talk about Christ. But they refuse to acknowledge Jesus as equal to
God and give Him the honor He deserves through their worship and praise
as they would the Father. And as Jesus has said, "He who does not honor
the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." (John 5:23)
They are no more Christian than Jews or Muslims.

one instance where Christ directed worship towards himself, you cannot produce it
because it does not exist. We honour Christ, however that is not the same as worship,
you are an enemy because you are merely content to scatter, not to gather, as you are
even doing so now. You can quote all the scripture you like, this fact remains to
distinguish those who are with Christ and those who are against him, for its not a
matter of honouring or worshipping as you are trying to insists, but of gathering and
not gathering, as the case may be.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
one instance where Christ directed worship towards himself, you cannot produce it
because it does not exist. We honour Christ, however that is not the same as worship,
you are an enemy because you are merely content to scatter, not to gather, as you are
even doing so now. You can quote all the scripture you like, this fact remains to
disti ...[text shortened]... shipping as you are trying to insists, but of gathering and
not gathering, as the case may be.

Jesus said, "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather
with Me scatters. Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be
forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And
whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him,
either in this age or the age to come." (Matthew 12:30-32 NASB)

The Jehovah's Witnesses do not gather with the rest of the Christians.
By pretending to be Christians they scatter as Jesus said.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 The JW's NWT
17Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom. 18And all of us, while we with unveiled faces reflect like mirrors the glory of Jehovah, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, exactly as done by Jehovah [the] Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is Jehovah according to your own NWT and therefore
the Holy Spirit is God. And again from your own NWT:

3But Peter said: “An·a·ni´as, why has Satan emboldened you to play false to the holy spirit and to hold back secretly some of the price of the field? 4As long as it remained with you did it not remain yours, and after it was sold did it not continue in your control? Why was it that you purposed such a deed as this in your heart? You have played false, not to men, but to God.” (Acts 5:3-4)

Does this not say the Holy Spirit is God for how can one play false with an
"active force"?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Jesus said, "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather
with Me scatters. Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be
forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And
whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him,
either in this age or the age to come." (Matthew 12:30 es this not say the Holy Spirit is God for how can one play false with an
"active force"?

as far as i can discern no Christian has ever approached me with the good news of
Gods kingdom, strange considering they apparently gather. What is is they are
actually gathering, dust?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
as far as i can discern no Christian has ever approached me with the good news of
Gods kingdom, strange considering they apparently gather. What is is they are
actually gathering, dust?

Maybe you live in an atheist area. Here where I live I routinely get
advertisement in the mail and sometimes there will be someone other
than JW's and Mormans come to my door and invite me to come to
their local Baptist or Methodist church. I have never had an atheist
do anything like that because they don't give a damn about the other
person. Here in the USA we have local churches as well as other
churches broadcast their worship service over radio and television for
anyone that is unable to attend or just wants to see and/or hear the
worship service and sermon. In fact, anytime I feel like it I can hear
and/or see a Christian religious program on radio or Television. I have
about 10 different Television station I can tune into that have exclusively
Christian programming. So you need to move here if you are lacking in
Christian teachings. The JWs and the Mormans are on the wrong path.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
one instance where Christ directed worship towards himself, you cannot produce it
because it does not exist. We honour Christ, however that is not the same as worship,
you are an enemy because you are merely content to scatter, not to gather, as you are
even doing so now. You can quote all the scripture you like, this fact remains to
disti ...[text shortened]... shipping as you are trying to insists, but of gathering and
not gathering, as the case may be.

I forgot to answer your challenge to produce one instance in which
Christ directed worship toward himself. I doubt if He did because
Jesus the Christ was humble and modest in that way. That type of
demand is something you might expect from Satan, not the Son of
God. But Jesus did say, "For the Father loves the Son, and shows
Him all things that He Himself is doing; and greater works than these
will He show Him, that you will marvel. For just as the Father raises
the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom
He wishes. For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given
all judgement to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son, even
as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not
honor the Father who sent Him." (John 5:20-23 NASB) Doesn't it
seem logical that if we honor the Father through worship, we should
do the same for the Son. God the father said, "Thou art My Son,
today I have begotten Thee" and "I will be a Father to Him, and He
shall be a Son to Me" and again, "And let all the angels of God worship
Him." (Hebrews 1:5-6) Paul says, "Therefore also God highly exalted
Him, and bestowed on Him the name that is above every name, that
at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in
heaven, and on earth, and under earth, and that every tongue should
confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father.
(Philippians 2:9-11) When are you going to confess Jesus is Jehovah?

Originally posted by RJHinds
I forgot to answer your challenge to produce one instance in which
Christ directed worship toward himself. I doubt if He did because
Jesus the Christ was humble and modest in that way. That type of
demand is something you might expect from Satan, not the Son of
God. But Jesus did say, "For the Father loves the Son, and shows
Him all things that He Hi of the Father.
(Philippians 2:9-11) When are you going to confess Jesus is Jehovah?

no it doesn't seem logical, for honour is not worship, unless of course you are willing to
state that when Paul said we are to 'honour men of all sorts', he meant us to worship
men of all sorts. Look, will you stop wasting my time with this drivel. If you want to
discuss what is in the Bible that is fine, the trinity is not in the Bible, Christ does not
mention it, neither does Paul, nor can you produce one reference where Christ stated
that we are to worship him.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
whatever, the text remains should you be interested in discussing any of the references or reasons

I'm not.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I forgot to answer your challenge to produce one instance in which
Christ directed worship toward himself. I doubt if He did because
Jesus the Christ was humble and modest in that way. That type of
demand is something you might expect from Satan, not the Son of
God. But Jesus did say, "For the Father loves the Son, and shows
Him all things that He Hi ...[text shortened]... of the Father.
(Philippians 2:9-11) When are you going to confess Jesus is Jehovah?

Never because we are not going to lie or tell others lies.....

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no it doesn't seem logical, for honour is not worship, unless of course you are willing to
state that when Paul said we are to 'honour men of all sorts', he meant us to worship
men of all sorts. Look, will you stop wasting my time with this drivel. If you want to
discuss what is in the Bible that is fine, the trinity is not in the Bible, Chris ...[text shortened]... oes Paul, nor can you produce one reference where Christ stated
that we are to worship him.

But God the Father did, as I just pointed out to you.

P.S. Don't you consider worship of God the Father, giving Him
the honor He is due?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the scripture mentions nothing of Jehovahs witness organisation, not as far as i can discern, perhaps you would like to point out where it does.

Please explain then why you called RjHinds "the enemy" and stop avoiding the point.

Originally posted by RJHinds
... But Jesus did say, "For the Father loves the Son, and shows
Him all things that He Himself is doing; and greater works than these
will He show Him, that you will marvel. For just as the Father raises
the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom
He wishes. For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given
all judgemen ...[text shortened]... em logical that if we honor the Father through worship, we should
do the same for the Son...

Oh, good lord. This is what happens when the uneducated pick and choose some selected verses to fit into their viewpoint, instead of using the story to illuminate their understanding of how to behave as Jesus teaches.

It's rather like taking a word from a sentence and trying to extract what concept the sentence conveys from a single word.

Care to take on John 5 as a whole and tell us what the point is? It's quite profound; far more so than the blather you suggest from snipping two verses from it.

On the other hand, you could continue to rape Bible verses to fit your preconceived ideas of Christianity.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Maybe you live in an atheist area. Here where I live I routinely get
advertisement in the mail and sometimes there will be someone other
than JW's and Mormans come to my door and invite me to come to
their local Baptist or Methodist church. I have never had an atheist
do anything like that because they don't give a damn about the other
person. Here ...[text shortened]... re if you are lacking in
Christian teachings. The JWs and the Mormans are on the wrong path.

no i live in an area that has nine large churches, in fact the name of my town is
Kirkintilloch, kirk being the old Scottish word for church. i dont believe your drivel
about atheists either, in fact, i have had many a more reasonable conversation with an
atheist than i do with so called Christians. The question of course was a personal one,
directed at you, how are you personally gathering persons towards the Christ? or do
you prefer to scatter?