Rajk999 - Jesus said we must believe

Originally posted by dj2becker
I understand that atheists don't believe in Jesus, do you disagree?

I believe in his message. Do you disagree?

Look, John tells us that "many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more” not because they had doubts about him being the anticipated prophet, but because they simply didn't understand or believe what Jesus was telling them.

"But there are some of you who do not believe." - Belief to Jesus meant believing in his message. I don't think I can say it any clearer than that.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I believe in his message. Do you disagree?

Look, John tells us that "many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more” not because they had doubts about him being the anticipated prophet, but because they simply didn't understand or believe what Jesus was telling them.

"But there are some of you who do not believe." - Belief to Jesus meant believing in his message. I don't think I can say it any clearer than that.

He does not want to hear that. These Christians believe that saying with your mouth that you believe that Jesus existed is what is the critical thing. But that is the definition of mouth worship, and this was condemned in very clear language by Christ. The reason why mouth worship is a popular doctrine is that following the commandments of Christ is unpopular and even ridiculed. Belief with the mouth and following commandment are at opposite ends of the doctrinal spectrum. Jesus was on the side of following his commandments and he made this fact abundantly clear. But some Christians hate that doctrine.

A good example is the post made by sonship earlier. He posted a reference from John 15, and he stopped short of quoting what Christ said about following the commandments which is a critical part of the explanation of what belief means.

Sonship quoted

" I am the true vine, and My Father is the husbandman ... Abide in Me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine; you are the branches. He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing." (See John 15:1-9)

The man is a shyster, when it comes to the doctrine of Christ, and this is not the first time he did this.
Here is the actual passage

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:
and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it,
that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you.
As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine;
no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches:
He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit:
for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch,
and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will,
and it shall be done unto you.
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love;
even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
(John 15:1-10 KJV)

The previous chapter of John 14 the message is the same

Belief = Abiding in Christ = Obeying Christ commandments.
If someone obeys Christ they are abiding in Christ and they are demonstrating that they believe in the message of Christ.

If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father,
and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not,
neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more;
but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them,
he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father,
and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
(John 14:15-21 KJV)

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I believe in his message. Do you disagree?

Look, John tells us that "many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more” not because they had doubts about him being the anticipated prophet, but because they simply didn't understand or believe what Jesus was telling them.

"But there are some of you who do not believe." - Belief to Jesus meant believing in his message. I don't think I can say it any clearer than that.

Do you believe everything He said or only the parts you like?

Originally posted by Rajk999
He does not want to hear that. These Christians believe that saying with your mouth that you believe that Jesus existed is what is the critical thing. But that is the definition of mouth worship, and this was condemned in very clear language by Christ. The reason why mouth worship is a popular doctrine is that following the commandments of Christ is unpopula ...[text shortened]... my Father,
and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
(John 14:15-21 KJV)[/i][/b]

When you say 'these Christains' who are you referring to? Name one Christian on here that said the only thing we need to believe is that Jesus existed. I have only ever seen you say that Christians say that.

Originally posted by dj2becker
When you say 'these Christains' who are you referring to? Name one Christian on here that said the only thing we need to believe is that Jesus existed. I have only ever seen you say that Christians say that.

Well,. I have never come across any Christian here on this site and in my personal life who preaches the doctrine of Christ, and who repeats the teachings of Christ which state how critical it is the follow his commandments.

Here is a challenge. Show me a thread here where a Christian deals with the teachings of Christ where he says to follow his commandments .. passages like what I have just quoted - John 14 and 15. Matt 25, parables of the Good Samaritan, the story of the Rich Man and lazarus .. and all the parables that speak of following Jesus teachings SHOW ME ONE.

Instead what you have here is a bunch of Christians who teach,
mouth worship,
that belief plus nothing else is all that is required,
they are saved by faith and no works are important,
they are eternally saved OSAS,
no sin can block their salvation
good works is legalistic and trying to earn ones salvation.

Nothing here from most Christians is of the teachings of Christ. Even the Mat 25 day of judgment is polluted with false interpretations of it being applied everyone else BUT Christians.-

Originally posted by dj2becker
When you say 'these Christains' who are you referring to? Name one Christian on here that said the only thing we need to believe is that Jesus existed. I have only ever seen you say that Christians say that.

No specific names or examples just more accusations!

Originally posted by Rajk999
Well,. I have never come across any Christian here on this site and in my personal life who preaches the doctrine of Christ, and who repeats the teachings of Christ which state how critical it is the follow his commandments.

Here is a challenge. Show me a thread here where a Christian deals with the teachings of Christ where he says to follow his commandm ...[text shortened]... dgment is polluted with false interpretations of it being applied everyone else BUT Christians.-

Name anyone here who says works are not important? Any Christian who believes the entire Bible will agree that faith without works is dead.

The Bible says we are saved by faith and not by works. Do you disagree with the Bible? Yes or No?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Name anyone here who says works are not important? Any Christian who believes the entire Bible will agree that faith without works is dead.

The Bible says we are saved by faith and not by works. Do you disagree with the Bible? Yes or No?

By grace through faith!

Originally posted by Rajk999
Well,. I have never come across any Christian here on this site and in my personal life who preaches the doctrine of Christ, and who repeats the teachings of Christ which state how critical it is the follow his commandments.

Here is a challenge. Show me a thread here where a Christian deals with the teachings of Christ where he says to follow his commandm ...[text shortened]... dgment is polluted with false interpretations of it being applied everyone else BUT Christians.-

Rajk999, just wondering, do you hear yourself when you speak (post)?

Well,. I have never come across any Christian here on this site and in my personal life who preaches the doctrine of Christ, and who repeats the teachings of Christ which state how critical it is the follow his commandments.

You must really believe you are the only person who speaks some truth with a statement like that! What a self delusional place to rest.

I have read many postings of the other Christians around here and there is something to be taken from every one of them for the purpose of edification. When things that don't jive doctrinally you pass on it (or address it), 'garbage in garbage out', you are familiar with this saying, no? We are commanded to test the spirits 'things we hear' as to whether they are of God or not, none of us are perfect and none of us have arrived. Moreover, we need to stick together and build each other up not divide and tear down. Would you agree with this statement?

1 John 4:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)

4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

Nothing here from most Christians is of the teachings of Christ. Even the Mat 25 day of judgment is polluted with false interpretations of it being applied everyone else BUT Christians

So which is it, the first part of your post is true or the last part, can't be both. It is concerning that you have not come across anybody in this forum that teachs Christ or in you personal life as well, because I have in both respects. You are either isolated from the rest of the world or so filled with self-righteousness that you cannot hear anything from another child of God (Christian) where a truth is presented. You present your 'opinion' with regards to scripture as if it were the only truth, and lambaste others that call you to question with childish name calling, not you not see it?

No greater love...

John 15:13 New King James Version (NKJV)

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

Those are the words of Jesus, the savior. I think we (Christians) need to practice more love. This word is not directed to you only, there are a couple of others that frequent the RHP Spirituality Forum that this would apply to as well. How does the world know we belong to God? Do you know? Can we practice more love and less hatred towards fellow believers with respect to the same God? Jesus epitomized this truth about love when he gave his life, and for who? All!


1 Corinthians 13 New King James Version (NKJV)

13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. 3 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

I hope you can hear what I am saying because I am trying to point a thing out as easy as I can. I admire your tenacity, it's your condescension that is troubling.

Brothers, we need to consider how we talk to each other... the world is watching. It is about love!

Originally posted by leunammi
Rajk999, just wondering, do you hear yourself when you speak (post)?

Well,. I have never come across any Christian here on this site and in my personal life who preaches the doctrine of Christ, and who repeats the teachings of Christ which state how critical it is the follow his commandments.

You must really believe you are the only perso ...[text shortened]... hers, we need to consider how we talk to each other... the world is watching. It is about love!

There are other Christians here who need to be told about love? and you chose me to tell that too? Why ? Am I the worst of the lot? Anyway my memory is pretty good and this must the the third time you posted this stuff without engaging at all in the SUBSTANCE OF THE THREAD . Do you know what the substance of the thread is? Do you care? Or are you just in love with love?

Im in love with THE TRUTH AS SPOKEN BY JESUS CHRIST. But the truth is you admire nothing about me, otherwise you would side with truth.. as there are nonbelievers who side with Jesus Christ and His teachings more than jokers like you. You are siding with the doctrine of the churches. But I care nothing about who admires me or otherwise. Im not here for that.

So back to the substance of the thread/post. The thread is about what I say pertaining eternal life. I stick with Christ in this regard and I twist and manipulate the teachings of the Apostles to fit into Christ. This is the way it should be. Christians generally stick with Paul and twist and manipulate Christ . This is the wrong way... and the way that leads to damnation You choose what way you like.

My post has a challenge which dj2becker ran away from. I will issue the same challenge to you. Here it is :

Here is a challenge. Show me a thread here where a Christian deals with the teachings of Christ where he says to follow his commandments .. passages like what I have just quoted - John 14 and 15. Matt 25, parables of the Good Samaritan, the story of the Rich Man and lazarus .. and all the parables that speak of following Jesus teachings SHOW ME ONE.

Im waiting.

If you can find none then quietly slip away into the the shadows [like dj2becker] and I would not raise the matter further.

Originally posted by Rajk999
There are other Christians here who need to be told about love? and you chose me to tell that too? Why ? Am I the worst of the lot? Anyway my memory is pretty good and this must the the third time you posted this stuff without engaging at all in the SUBSTANCE OF THE THREAD . Do you know what the substance of the thread is? Do you care? Or are you just i ...[text shortened]... uietly slip away into the the shadows [like dj2becker] and I would not raise the matter further.

There are other Christians here who need to be told about love? and you chose me to tell that too? Why ? Am I the worst of the lot?

Relax. Others of us are reading along and getting the benefit as well.

Anyway my memory is pretty good and this must the the third time you posted this stuff without engaging at all in the SUBSTANCE OF THE THREAD . Do you know what the substance of the thread is? Do you care? Or are you just in love with love?

The poster is trying to help us.

Im in love with THE TRUTH AS SPOKEN BY JESUS CHRIST. But the truth is you admire nothing about me, otherwise you would side with truth.. you are siding with the doctrine of the churches. But I care nothing about who admires or otherwise. Im not here for that.

Personally, the tone I get from the comments is that if s/he didn't love you s/he would not try to admonish you.

You know "the truth is in Jesus" as Paul said (Eph. 4:21).

Christians have to learn to convey a Person and not just right doctrinal information.
I myself have a long way to go.

So back to the substance of the thread/post. The thread is about what I say pertaining eternal life. I stick with Christ in this regard and I twist and manipulate the teachings of the Apostles to fit into Christ. This is the way it should be. Christians generally stick with Paul and twist and manipulate Christ . This is the wrong way... and the way that leads to damnation You choose what way you like.

Paul taught what Jesus taught.
He walked in the same steps and taught the same way of life.

Paul was very faithful.
Can some of his words be abused? Yes. That is not the fault of Paul.

My post has a challenge which dj2becker ran away from. I will issue the same challenge to you. Here it is :

Here is a challenge. Show me a thread here where a Christian deals with the teachings of Christ where he says to follow his commandments .. passages like what I have just quoted - John 14 and 15. Matt 25, parables of the Good Samaritan, the story of the Rich Man and lazarus .. and all the parables that speak of following Jesus teachings SHOW ME ONE.

Im waiting.

While you're waiting you should consider and even pray about what was just posted for your edification.

If you can find none then quietly slip away into the the shadows [like dj2becker] and I would not raise the matter further.

Sometimes people can "quietly slip away" from other people because they have body odor or passed gas. It should not always be assumed that their intellect is just too formidable.

It could be that you just give off a stinking attitude in fellowship.

Originally posted by Rajk999
There are other Christians here who need to be told about love? and you chose me to tell that too? Why ? Am I the worst of the lot? Anyway my memory is pretty good and this must the the third time you posted this stuff without engaging at all in the SUBSTANCE OF THE THREAD . Do you know what the substance of the thread is? Do you care? Or are you just i ...[text shortened]... uietly slip away into the the shadows [like dj2becker] and I would not raise the matter further.

I gave a detailed response to one of your questions and you responded with only one word: LAME.

You obviously don't want to admit that you were wrong when you said an atheist can be saved without believing in Jesus.

Originally posted by Rajk999
There are other Christians here who need to be told about love? and you chose me to tell that too? Why ? Am I the worst of the lot? Anyway my memory is pretty good and this must the the third time you posted this stuff without engaging at all in the SUBSTANCE OF THE THREAD . Do you know what the substance of the thread is? Do you care? Or are you just i ...[text shortened]... uietly slip away into the the shadows [like dj2becker] and I would not raise the matter further.

There are other Christians here who need to be told about love? and you chose me to tell that too? Why ? Am I the worst of the lot?

My comments are directed at all Christians, and yes when it comes to being the 'worst in the lot', I don't know what do you think? in my opinion, in the way of frequency i think you are. I am only pointing out that our tongues have the power of life and death, we ought to be speaking life to one another and building up, especially other Christians. As I said, this is for all Christians here not just you that use the tongue in the wrong way.

Or are you just in love with love?

1 John 4:7-10 New King James Version (NKJV)

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

So, God is love. Am I in love with love? I am, and wish it was more than it is, but I am striving. Are you not in love with love? Do you love God?

With regards to your challenge, won't play because it does not matter. If you would like and it is your decision only, why don't you show where all the other Christian's in this forum teach or otherwise state that it is not important to follow the commandments of Jesus as you accuse. I have seen you make this accusation many times and sideline conversation with a couple of others and it is in an almost us against them manner. On second thought, don't worry about it. I have communicated what I wanted to and we all know that threads go off on and into tangents, as I have done. I certainly do not want to create a new thread for what I consider just an observation and correction.

Carry on, I guess.

Originally posted by sonship

There are other Christians here who need to be told about love? and you chose me to tell that too? Why ? Am I the worst of the lot?

Relax. Others of us are reading along and getting the benefit as well.

[quote]
Anyway my memory is pretty good and this must the the third time you posted this stuff without engaging at all in the SUBST ...[text shortened]... is just too formidable.

It could be that you just give off a stinking attitude in fellowship.

Christians have to learn to convey a Person and not just right doctrinal information.
I myself have a long way to go.

True story, I do as well.

Originally posted by leunammi

There are other Christians here who need to be told about love? and you chose me to tell that too? Why ? Am I the worst of the lot?

My comments are directed at all Christians, and yes when it comes to being the 'worst in the lot', I don't know what do you think? in my opinion, in the way of frequency i think you are. I am only pointing o ...[text shortened]... te a new thread for what I consider just an observation and correction.

Carry on, I guess.

So you can find no thread ... NOT ONE SINGLE THREAD, where Christians discuss the teachings of Christ pertaining to
- love and charity
- righteousness
- entry into the Kingdom based on good works

NONE !! Something critical like that Christians never post or discuss.
Neither do you ever post stuff like that.

In fact it gets worse; When I post these things I get ridiculed, I get laughed at.
Christians here condemn what I say about Christ commandments.
They belittle these teachings of Christ
Call me Pharisee, devil, heretic and other terms Christ said to expect from evildoers like YOU.

And you think I have have a problem ?

Here is some advice .. get your head out of your behind and open your eyes.