Salvation

Originally posted by Coletti
He ya go. I pulled this together kind of quick - but I think it covers much of what we were taking about. Some about justification, some sanctification.


(Tit 3:3-7)

[/quote]

Originally posted by no1marauder
Nary a word from Jesus; what a surprise. Have you ever read the Book of James, Coletti, or did John Calvin scrub that book from your Bible like he did the other books?

Originally posted by Coletti
[b]James is an excellent book.

James is about not judging a persons faith by their words alone. Anyone can claim to be a Christian. Anyone can say they have faith. But James shows that the evidence of faith is works. A faith without works is no faith at all - it's dead. A living faith will be evidence by the good works of a person. Thus the proof of faith is works. An authentic believer will have the fruit of faith.

So Coletti, from what you are saying, predestiny only started after the resurrection of Christ ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
OK thanks. My interpretation of those passages is that now that Christ has come and died for the sins of man, we now have a chance for eternal life if and only if we BELIEVE in Him and Do His will ie follow his commandments .. WORKS .. Matt 25. Nothing there contradicts the requrment for good works. Salvation comes through belief AND good deeds.

It can c ...[text shortened]... id it so many times believe in me and follow me.

Are you guys happy following someone else ?

Originally posted by Coletti
Here's my point regarding the relationship between faith and works. Many times the Bible says we are saved by the work of Christ - his sacrifice saves - but it warns that we are to continue doing good works because faith without works is dead. The nature of saving faith to works is that saving faith always results in good works. The work themselves do ...[text shortened]... te the whole picture of faith and obedience as part of a logical and coherent system of beliefs.

Good. so we agree.

You must have both faith and works.
If there is a person who says he has faith (and says he is born again) but does no good works then thats not acceptable ie no salvation.

Paul and the apostles clearly defined how the faith arose and Christ explained what works he expects from us, so there is not contradiction.

Originally posted by Rajk999
So Coletti, from what you are saying, predestiny only started after the resurrection of Christ ?

In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
(Eph 1:11)

Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath,
(Heb 6:17)

So its pointless to say preach to people and try to convert them as the elect is chosen.

Why would Titus say this :
For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
(Tit 3:3-7)

Does not sound like predestiny to me. Once we were wicked and Now we are saved ? ??

Originally posted by Rajk999
So its pointless to say preach to people and try to convert them as the elect is chosen.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
You have arrived at one of the paradoxes of Coletti's Calvinism.

Originally posted by no1marauder
You would concede that this message is not in the Gospels in Christ's own words? You would concede that Jesus repeatedly told others to do good works? You would concede that Jesus never mentioned predestination?

"But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
(Joh 6:64-65)

"For many are called, but few are chosen."
(Mat 22:14)

Joh 8:24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."


Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Originally posted by Rajk999
So its pointless to say preach to people and try to convert them as the elect is chosen.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
You have arrived at one of the paradoxes of Coletti's Calvinism.

It is pointless since Coletti's audience has no power to heed or reject the message. Yet it must also be part of God's plan since God is willing Coletti to do it - Coletti cannot be choosing to do it of his own volition.

Thus, some of God's plans, according to Coletti, are pointless. But can plans by their very nature be pointless?