Socialization & Religion

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Dodging the question I see.

Dodging? How so? I have stated clearly what my beliefs are on numerous occasions including, at least once, in a post addressed directly to you, relatively recently.

Originally posted by FMF
Dodging? How so? I have stated clearly what my beliefs are on numerous occasions including, at least once, in a post addressed directly to you, relatively recently.

Surely you have it saved somewhere on a word document and can give me a quick copy and paste?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Surely you have it saved somewhere on a word document and can give me a quick copy and paste?

I don't think I do. I think you're just being passive aggressive about this so I am not concerned. Meanwhile, the question this tangent is seeking to distract from is still unanswered: Are good works optional for a Christian?

Originally posted by FMF
I don't think I do. I think you're just being passive aggressive about this so I am not concerned. Meanwhile, the question this tangent is seeking to distract from is still unanswered: Are good works optional for a Christian?

They are neither optional nor compulsory for salvation purposes. They flow naturally from a regenerate heart.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
They are neither optional nor compulsory for salvation purposes. They flow naturally from a regenerate heart.

If there is belief in Jesus and therefore in "salvation" but good works do not "flow naturally", can that "salvation" be lost, even as the 'faith in Jesus' alone belief continues?

Originally posted by FMF
If there is belief in Jesus and therefore in "salvation" but good works do not "flow naturally", can that "salvation" be lost, even as the 'faith in Jesus' alone belief continues?

If good works do not flow naturally then I would question whether the belief is genuine. People can claim to believe with their mouths but their lives tell a different story.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If good works do not flow naturally then I would question whether the belief is genuine. People can claim to believe with their mouths but their lives tell a different story.

Yes, but what about those Christians who most certainly do believe in Jesus and in the Christian God and in the afterlife and in the significance of Jesus' death, but, nevertheless, the good works do not flow naturally? Does their 'by-faith-alone-salvation' get rescinded in some way and turn to "damnation"?

FMF: But I'm not an atheist.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Just a hypocrite, then.

What makes you say this?

Originally posted by FMF
Yes, but what about those Christians who most certainly do believe in Jesus and in the Christian God and in the afterlife and in the significance of Jesus' death, but, nevertheless, the good works do not flow naturally? Does their 'by-faith-alone-salvation' get rescinded in some way and turn to "damnation"?

Lip service doesn't mean anything. Faith without works is not genuine faith. Faith without works is dead.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Lip service doesn't mean anything. Faith without works is not genuine faith. Faith without works is dead.

So, according to you, good works (it turns out) are not optional - they are, in fact, required in order to prove that "belief is genuine" and that faith is not dead, That seems to be what you are suggesting. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally posted by FMF
So, according to you, good works (it turns out) are [b]not optional - they are, in fact, required in order to prove that "belief is genuine" and that faith is not dead, That seems to be what you are suggesting. Correct me if I'm wrong.[/b]

They are evidence not proof. Someone can do good works with the wrong motives. Only God sees the motives of the heart. So we humans cannot judge. God alone will judge.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
They are evidence not proof. Someone can do good works with the wrong motives. Only God sees the motives of the heart. So we humans cannot judge. God alone will judge.

These seem merely to be a la carte platitudes.

You said "Faith without works is not genuine faith. Faith without works is dead."

So, in other words:

"without works" = "not genuine faith", yes?

And...

"without works" = "dead faith".

This is what you have said, is it not?

Originally posted by FMF
These seem merely to be a la carte platitudes.

You said "Faith without works is not genuine faith. Faith without works is dead."

So, in other words:

"without works" = "not genuine faith", yes?

And...

"without works" = "dead faith".

This is what you have said, is it not?

Everyone that has genuine faith will do good works but not everyone that does good works has genuine faith.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Everyone that has genuine faith will do good works but not everyone that does good works has genuine faith.

So for "salvation", people have to have both "genuine faith" will do "good works". It seems to me that your position is moving away from KellyJay's and closer to Rajk999's with regard to the imperative that there are "good works".

Originally posted by FMF
So for "salvation", people have to have both "genuine faith" will do "good works". It seems to me that your position is moving away from KellyJay's and closer to Rajk999's with regard to the imperative that there are "good works".

No I said good works do not save you. Because people with no faith can do good works.