Spirituality
25 Dec 13
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 122153
05 Jan 14
Originally posted by galveston75What...
No I think it's time I stop waisting my time with you.....Have a great life.
This is a debating forum Galveston, I have made a case against your position and all you can do is strop off in feigned frustration because you can't refute the evidence.
Hilarious.
05 Jan 14
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75If Satan was behind the "star" then it could not have been a celestial star or planets. Stars do not move around like that and come to rest over a certain spot because it would violate God's established laws for the movement of stars. It is clear that some angels were there at the birth of Jesus and angels are sometimes referred to as "stars" because of their brightness. So I say angels made up the brightness of the "star" that the wise men saw, which disappeared and then reappeared sometime after the birth and came to rest above the house were Jesus stayed for awhile. Satan can not control celestial stars and planets to do anything. Satan is said to have taken a third of the stars of heaven with him, but those stars were fallen angels and not celestial stars and planets. So the argument, in my opinion, comes down to if these angels followed God or Satan.
What? The issue here is what the Bible says and does not say, not what we think. The Bibles calls the light the magi saw a "star" and never refers to that light as an "angel". The bible clearly says what the shepherds saw and heard speak was an angel and not a star.
No one else according to the bible saw this star that lead the magi to Herod "first" ...[text shortened]... s, proves it had a sinister purpose and could only have been controled by something evil, satan.
06 Jan 14
Originally posted by RJHindsSo these angels as you say the star actually was, led the magi to Herod?
If Satan was behind the "star" then it could not have been a celestial star or planets. Stars do not move around like that and come to rest over a certain spot because it would violate God's established laws for the movement of stars. It is clear that some angels were there at the birth of Jesus and angels are sometimes referred to as "stars" because of t ...[text shortened]... d planets. So the argument, in my opinion, comes down to if these angels followed God or Satan.
06 Jan 14
Originally posted by galveston75No, the magi lost track of this "star" and went to the current King in Jerusalem on their own for help in getting directions. The magi probably knew nothing about King Herod at the time. That is my guess.
So these angels as you say the star actually was, led the magi to Herod?
06 Jan 14
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsWhere does the bible say any of this? I understand your comment but still I have to ask why did the star lead them to Jerusalem and not directly to Jesus?
No, the magi lost track of this "star" and went to the current King in Jerusalem on their own for help in getting directions. The magi probably knew nothing about King Herod at the time. That is my guess.
06 Jan 14
5 edits
Originally posted by galveston75Matthew 2. The star did not lead the magi to Jerusalem. They saw it in the east and interpreted it to mean that the King of the Jews (the Messiah) had been born. Read it for yourself. Also read Luke 2 about the angels coming down from heaven to scare the shepherds with their brightness and returning back up into heaven. Note that Luke 2:39 jumps to coincide with Matthew 2:21.
Where does the bible say any of this? I understand your comment but still I have to ask why did the star lead them to Jerusalem and not directly to Jesus?
06 Jan 14
I think my intent for the OP was to ask the question of what was this star ? Could an astronomical answer be found ? I was sparked by this only because I attended a service on the eve of Christmas where the pastor brought this very subject up and referenced the video that was in one of my post. I understand that many traditions of men are wrong or just not mentioned in the bible. Like the notion of three wise-men and that the Magi were there on the night of the Lord's birth when the reality is they arrived sometime after like months up to 2 years. One thing we can agree (for those who believe) is that this event occurred it's just what we read between the lines that differs.
Manny
06 Jan 14
We know the stars were named by God the bible says and the constellations and of course the devil will twist anything that is meant to give glory to God. I do not think it is too far fetched to believe that God would use the stars to tell of the redemption and to announce signs and to mark seasons. The constellations have been known and for the most part had the same names since antiquity.
Manny
06 Jan 14
Originally posted by RJHindsYeah I know but still why didn't it lead them to Jesus directly and why did no one else see this star?
Matthew 2. The star did not lead the magi to Jerusalem. They saw it in the east and interpreted it to mean that the King of the Jews had been born. Read it for yourself.
Also the angels, who were from God, went directly to the shepherds and actually spoke to them about this birth, and these shepherds who we're outside tending to their sheep never reported seeing any lights up in the sky before the angels appeared to them. Why could they not see this light if this were the angels coming down from heaven?
06 Jan 14
Originally posted by galveston75As is pointed out in Luke 2 the shepherds in the field were not gazing into the heavens at the time. They were instead busy watching over their flock and were surprized and frightened by the glory of the angels. They had no time to mistake these angels as a star. But notice that the angels departed and went back up into heaven. At some point as they were ascending those angels probably looked like a star again, but by then the Shepherds already knew what it was.
Yeah I know but still why didn't it lead them to Jesus directly and why did no one else see this star?
Also the angels, who were from God, went directly to the shepherds and actually spoke to them about this birth, and these shepherds who we're outside tending to their sheep never reported seeing any lights up in the sky before the angels appeared to them. Why could they not see this light if this were the angels coming down from heaven?
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 122153
06 Jan 14
Originally posted by menace71As they arrived some time after the birth, what does this tell us about the star I wonder?
I think my intent for the OP was to ask the question of what was this star ? Could an astronomical answer be found ? I was sparked by this only because I attended a service on the eve of Christmas where the pastor brought this very subject up and referenced the video that was in one of my post. I understand that many traditions of men are wrong or just not ...[text shortened]... eve) is that this event occurred it's just what we read between the lines that differs.
Manny
06 Jan 14
Originally posted by divegeesterCorrect. If you notice Galveston says :
It doesn't say it, he said he is guessing. As are you with your version.
The issue here is what the Bible says and does not say, not what we think.
and then concludes by telling us what he thinks :
This star was clearly not from God and with it's original directing these magi to Herod, not Jesus, proves it had a sinister purpose and could only have been controled by something evil, satan.
How could people be so blind?
06 Jan 14
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75Your assuming nobody else saw this star but the bible does not state either way. We know absolutely that Magi from the East saw it and actually knew it's meaning beforehand. When they arrived at the capitol of the Jews which makes sense because they were looking for the King of the Jews this is usually were one might find Kings. What is not as clear is if they lost track of this star briefly but it kinda of seems this way. ( Could be wrong ) People who paid attention to the stars might have seen the star however I could see where the Jews might of missed it as first of all they were forbidden to use the stars in a way contrary to what they were taught and were not looking.
Yeah I know but still why didn't it lead them to Jesus directly and why did no one else see this star?
Also the angels, who were from God, went directly to the shepherds and actually spoke to them about this birth, and these shepherds who we're outside tending to their sheep never reported seeing any lights up in the sky before the angels appeared to them. Why could they not see this light if this were the angels coming down from heaven?
Manny