05 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by ivanhoeWhat if somebody gave them cancer? Would that then be murder and no longer suicide?
They have different numbers?1&2.If your first example is what the topic is about then the difference would be the planes?The first one is murder and the second is suicide!
Correct !!
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by no1maraudermarauder: "No, Ivanhoe; it was a question.
No, Ivanhoe; it was a question. The article's answer is that we can't know if anybody is eternally damned because they commit suicide. Your answer was no. Your answer and the answer of the article are different. Other people might have a different answer. The question asked was to encourage discussion; I thought that was the purpose of this forum.
Let me ask you one thing: Was the question you asked in your first post literally raised by the tv program's makers or was it a question which you thought of watching the program ?
Could you please name the program. Maybe others watched it also.
05 Dec 05
2 edits
Originally posted by no1marauderMarauder: " The jumpers obviously rejected His "lordship".
Finally, suicide defies the love we owe God. Sure, we all face the tough times, hardships, and sufferings. However, we are called to place ourselves in the hands of God who will never abandon us, but see us safely through this life. The words of the "Our Father" — "thy will be done" — must be real for us. To commit suicide is to reject His "lordship ...[text shortened]... rald.com/saunders/03ws/ws030605.htm
The jumpers obviously rejected His "lordship".
After considering what has been written in this thread and thinking this whole thing over, do you still hold that opinion ?
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeThe program was Inside 9/11 on the National Geographic Channel. It had a number of minutes with eyewitnesses describing people jumping from the building and even showed some grisly footage of it.
[b]marauder: "No, Ivanhoe; it was a question.
Let me ask you one thing: Was the question you asked in your first post literally raised by the tv program's makers or was it a question which you thought of watching the program ?
Could you please name the program. Maybe others watched it also.[/b]
No, the question wasn't literally raised in the program; as I explained in a prior post, the circumstances reminded me of Darfius' assertion that all suicides were automatically eternally damned. I seem to remember being told that was the RCC's position in my youth, although I was obviously either misinformed or my memory was faulty upon review of the Cathecism. I think the thread has taken a ridiculous turn with the odd claim that someone jumping from the 90th floor isn't suicide; if it isn't intentionally ending one's own life, I don't know what would be. Death is absolutely certain.
05 Dec 05
1 edit
From the "Hunter Thompson Commits Suicide" thread February 21, 2005: http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=20053&page=2
Darfius: Committing suicide is a one way ticket to hell. It shows a complete and utter lack of belief that God can help you through anything. In other words, even if he had faith, he lost it at that last moment.
AND
Darfius: I'm simply pointing out that suicide gets you hell, according to the Bible.
05 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderIn this case I also believe it isn't suicide and it can even not be euthanasia.
The program was Inside 9/11 on the National Geographic Channel. It had a number of minutes with eyewitnesses describing people jumping from the building and even showed some grisly footage of it.
No, the question wasn't literally raised in the program; as I explained in a prior post, the circumstances reminded me of Darfius' assertion that al ...[text shortened]... intentionally ending one's own life, I don't know what would be. Death is absolutely certain.
It would sound ridiculous to argue if they would have more or less seconds of conscious life (and in which conditions), but it could be logically done.
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by no1marauderYou're making a mess of things. Just as the article isn't answering your question you cannot take Darfius's comment as an answer to your question.
From the "Hunter Thompson Commits Suicide" thread February 21, 2005: http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=20053&page=2
Darfius: Committing suicide is a one way ticket to hell. It shows a complete and utter lack of belief that God can help you through anything. In other words, even if he had faith, he lost it at that last ...[text shortened]...
Darfius: I'm simply pointing out that suicide gets you hell, according to the Bible.
05 Dec 05
3 edits
Originally posted by ivanhoeWhy? How do you interpret the phrase "one way ticket to Hell"?
You're making a mess of things. Just as the article isn't answering your question you cannot take Darfius's comment as an answer to your question.
The article did answer my question. Its answer was: "We don't know". I find such an answer perfectly acceptable.
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by PalynkaI suppose anything can be argued.
In this case I also believe it isn't suicide and it can even not be euthanasia.
It would sound ridiculous to argue if they would have more or less seconds of conscious life (and in which conditions), but it could be logically done.
How do you answer the point raised by me on the first page:
Since everybody dies at some point, suicide must be morally objectionable to the Christian mentality because YOU decide the timing of your death, not the fact of it.
05 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderIt's an interesting point, but by your definition the individual can only choose between two forms of suicide(edit: since he chooses the timing whether he jumps or not). I believe that your definition is therefore incomplete. Can one be forced to commit suicide?
I suppose anything can be argued.
How do you answer the point raised by me on the first page:
Since everybody dies at some point, suicide must be morally objectionable to the Christian mentality because YOU decide the timing of your death, not the fact of it.
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by no1maraudermarauder, these jumpers weren't committing suicide. They were victims of an act of terror.
Why? How do you interpret the phrase "one way ticket to Hell"?
You are making the unacceptable assumption these jumpers committed suicide and then you ask the question whether they are eternally damned.
You are confusing the perpetrator and the victim.